Topic: Man, you guys are going to kill me.

[Raef]

Sorry mate, as much as I'm interested in electric bikes for their novelty value, (as they have very little practical value on my side of the pond)

Now if it would travel 1000 miles on a single charge......    Hmmmmmmmm   

maybe if you had the flux capacitor I seen one e-bay you could create the 1.21 gigawatts required to do so  with a banana peal no less

[Rgconner]

The plan has changed significantly since the sketches. I don't want to deal with all the weight and complexity of some sort of cover, so it's going to be super simple and light weight. The diagonal portion is the battery pack, consisting of 6 light weight SLA batteries. The tray that will hold the batteries will also hold the majority of the components. So the only pieces I have to fabricate are an angle iron battery tray and a motor mount which bolts into the existing motor mount (pictured below).

Maybe it not practical at this point, but...

why put the motor there? Why not in the upper triangle where the oil reserve went?

From what I see, that would significantly increase the amount of battery you could mount, especially when lighter LI's replace your current batteries. I could see the chain being an issue as it would go tight and slack more than the original chain line. Perhaps if it was mounted to the swing arm instead of the frame? No chain flex in that plan, but not sure if it is more practical than the current design.

Ideally, one could use something like this:
http://www.enertrac.net/product.php#b

so there is no chain at all, and the entire frame is available for batteries.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would provide the power you need for this application, but if you were converting a 400 or smaller bike... it would work.

Or if you had one up front too... hey, an all wheel drive bike! =)

[scottly]

Most urban daily commutes are less than 40 miles round trip, within the capabilities of current EVs.

[OldSchool_IsCool]

Today, an electric vehicle uses batteries to store energy with an electric/magnetic induction motor to convert that energy into motion.  tomorrow you will be able to take out most of the batteries and drop in a hydrogen fuel cell.  At that time, you'll be thankful for those who refined the power train.

As for the iconic SOHC4 motor, you can always convert it to a HICE (Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine).  There IS a place for our bikes in the Hydrogen Economy!!

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The plan has changed significantly since the sketches. I don't want to deal with all the weight and complexity of some sort of cover, so it's going to be super simple and light weight. The diagonal portion is the battery pack, consisting of 6 light weight SLA batteries. The tray that will hold the batteries will also hold the majority of the components. So the only pieces I have to fabricate are an angle iron battery tray and a motor mount which bolts into the existing motor mount (pictured below).

Maybe it not practical at this point, but...

why put the motor there? Why not in the upper triangle where the oil reserve went?

From what I see, that would significantly increase the amount of battery you could mount, especially when lighter LI's replace your current batteries. I could see the chain being an issue as it would go tight and slack more than the original chain line. Perhaps if it was mounted to the swing arm instead of the frame? No chain flex in that plan, but not sure if it is more practical than the current design.

Ideally, one could use something like this:
http://www.enertrac.net/product.php#b

so there is no chain at all, and the entire frame is available for batteries.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would provide the power you need for this application, but if you were converting a 400 or smaller bike... it would work.

Or if you had one up front too... hey, an all wheel drive bike! =)

Good point about the motor placement, it's something I definitely considered. But I was afraid of a few things with the motor placement being there. I was worried about the clearance, my motor is pretty big and just fits up there. Also, keeping a very heavy motor that high in the frame concerns me.

Regarding the hub motor, they're REALLY nice...but cost a lot more, need higher voltage (more batteries), a much more expensive controller, and they're really not any faster than my cheaper motor and controller. Now they have a new DOUBLE hub motor that is supposed to be pretty insane, but I'm sure it costs 2,300 bucks or something. But I strongly considered both options before settling on this configuration.

[lucky]

It is not surprising to me that people that grew up with computers would like to find a electrical solution to their transportation challenges.

But even solar panels are made from oil based products. Arco oil makes the most solar panels.

I think the next solution will come from fuel made from garbage. Including scrap plastics.

I think the gearbox from the CB750 should be retained with any electric motor.

[Raef]

Ccinsidering the rpm range of a brushless motor I think all you would need would be a planetary gear with a lock up.
 
Way to many parts in a standard trans

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Ccinsidering the rpm range of a brushless motor I think all you would need would be a planetary gear with a lock up.
 
Way to many parts in a standard trans

There's a few guys playing with old powerglides on the electric motorcycle forum. I'm too stupid for that stuff though.

[unitedguitar]

Sheik, Do you really even need a transmission of any kind? Since it is an electric motor when you have the "throttle" rolled all the way off it should apply no power to the motor. With no power the motor won't turn. That is all, of course, unless you want a transmission to allow for lower motor rpm which in theory could save battery power and provide for a longer lasting charge. The possibilities are endless.

[Raef]

Sheik, Do you really even need a transmission of any kind? Since it is an electric motor when you have the "throttle" rolled all the way off it should apply no power to the motor. With no power the motor won't turn. That is all, of course, unless you want a transmission to allow for lower motor rpm which in theory could save battery power and provide for a longer lasting charge. The possibilities are endless.

When you turn off the power to an electric motor it just free spins unless you add some sort of resistance across the polls, it could just a simple capacitor, braking built into the speed control  or a complicated recharge system.

[Sparked]

Subscribed

[lucky]

Gear boxes with electric motors works very well.
One of the new Brammo motorcycles has a 6 speed gearbox i think.
It is called the Brammo ENGAGE.

I would show the video but it is horrible it just flashes many images one after another and you can't really look at it. Music screaming something over and over i e back ground .Terrible.

It is supposed to be hip. But I would really like it if they walked around d the bike and REALLY look at the parts and talk about it. Tell us the range. Cost and time to charge. Not a bunch of crap flashing by the screen so fast you don't know what you saw. Like the flim flam man.

[Syscrush]

Maybe it not practical at this point, but...

why put the motor there? Why not in the upper triangle where the oil reserve went?

Because the chain tension would be unmanageable and it would destroy the bike's anti-squat geometry.

Perhaps if it was mounted to the swing arm instead of the frame? No chain flex in that plan, but not sure if it is more practical than the current design.

It's not.  You'd lose the anti-squat AND add unsprung weight, which would really mess up handling.  Also couldn't be good for motor longevity since you'd be introducing a lot of road vibes to the motor.

Ideally, one could use something like this:
http://www.enertrac.net/product.php#b

so there is no chain at all, and the entire frame is available for batteries.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would provide the power you need for this application, but if you were converting a 400 or smaller bike... it would work.

Or if you had one up front too... hey, an all wheel drive bike! =)

Hub motors seem like a good idea, but the lack of anti-squat and the very high unsprung weight makes them a non-starter IMO.  Of course, on the other hand 2WD is really exciting.

[lucky]

I spotted this one at Rice-O-Rama in september, very cool.  Notice the cool air intake and the sprung solo seat. This thing used every bit of suspension travel when he rode it out onto the grass, must be heavy.  I think it started life as a CBR?

Light and strong certainly are requirements on a bike like this, billet everything, titanium bolts, hollow axles, plastic fenders, carbon fiber etc... make every ounce count towards increasing range. And then there's aerodynamics...

This bike is the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Cheeeesssshhhh!!!!

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Okay guys, made mockups of my battery packs to check the clearance, and all looks good. The paint can is the same diameter as the motor, and is a cheap way to make sure everything fits. I'm going to move forward with this configuration, I'm happy with it. Another pack goes where the carbs would go, and are about the same size.

[Syscrush]

Very exciting. I'm glad to see this project back in action, and with some expert help.  This is awesome.

Also, Tom Waits is the man.

[Terry in Australia]

I like what you're doing mate, but I think the hub motors are the way to go, no messy chains to worry about, which means less engineering is required to make it work, less chance of mechanical failure, and it will give your more room for your batteries? Cheers, Terry.

[lucky]

Most urban daily commutes are less than 40 miles round trip, within the capabilities of current EVs.

40 miles round trip? Not in California!

[Terry in Australia]

Most urban daily commutes are less than 40 miles round trip, within the capabilities of current EVs.

40 miles round trip? Not in California!

Or here in Oz mate, my daily commute is 120 miles! Cheers, Terry.

[scottly]

Most urban daily commutes are less than 40 miles round trip, within the capabilities of current EVs.

40 miles round trip? Not in California!

When I lived in the Silicon Valley in Cal, my daily commute was less than 20 miles.

[Syscrush]

I like what you're doing mate, but I think the hub motors are the way to go, no messy chains to worry about, which means less engineering is required to make it work, less chance of mechanical failure, and it will give your more room for your batteries? Cheers, Terry.

No anti-squat, and huge unsprung weight.  I'm not saying that hub motors have no place, but they're no panacea.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I like what you're doing mate, but I think the hub motors are the way to go, no messy chains to worry about, which means less engineering is required to make it work, less chance of mechanical failure, and it will give your more room for your batteries? Cheers, Terry.

I agree that hub motors are really cool, and Mark at Enertrac posts over at the electric motorcycle forum. That particular motor was made for the Catavolt team out in Australia for their electric racing bike. But Syscrush has a point, the unsprung weight does become an issue, and they're simply not as fast or as affordable as the chain drive options yet. Especially the AC motors. But it is nice not having any moving parts or a greasy chain to worry about....that would be really cool.

But for my bike, the money just isn't there for me. Hub motors are a bigger expense, and require a higher voltage which means I'd have to spend even more on batteries.

The Hammarhead Volta uses an enertrac hub motors, and it's one of the most beautiful electric bikes I've seen.

[Terry in Australia]

I like what you're doing mate, but I think the hub motors are the way to go, no messy chains to worry about, which means less engineering is required to make it work, less chance of mechanical failure, and it will give your more room for your batteries? Cheers, Terry.

No anti-squat, and huge unsprung weight.  I'm not saying that hub motors have no place, but they're no panacea.

Yeah I agree mate, but the thing is going to weigh a ton anyway, so I can't see that the unsprung weight will be a major issue. hell, if he uses the standard 630 (Queen Mary anchor) chain it probably won't make any difference at all! What's a Panacea, some kinda fancy Mexican dish? Cheers, Terry.

[Syscrush]

Yeah I agree mate, but the thing is going to weigh a ton anyway, so I can't see that the unsprung weight will be a major issue.

Is it?  He's not using lead-acid batteries. Have we seen #'s on the target weight? Also, I don't think that overall weight justifies putting weight where it most adversely affects handling & comfort.

[/quote]hell, if he uses the standard 630 (Queen Mary anchor) chain it probably won't make any difference at all!
[/quote]
Ha ha, good point!

What's a Panacea, some kinda fancy Mexican dish? Cheers, Terry.

Yes, I like mine with extra salsa and just a bit of crema on the side.  None of that fake grocery store sour cream stuff!

Anyhow, unsprung weight is one issue, the other is that you lose the anti-squat geometry, which would also seriously upset handling, maybe even cause clearance issues when cornering aggressively.  If I was doing something with a hub motor, I'd want someone with some expertise to develop a parallel linkage between the frame and torque arm to the hub motor instead of just attaching that torque arm to the swinger, like the BMW Paralever setup.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The bike is NOT going to weigh a ton. How much does the original engine weigh? The combined weight of the new motor and batteries is about 160 pounds. The weight of the rest of the components is about another 30 or so. The seat is fiberglass and the tank is going to be hollowed out, so I'm hoping to be quite a bit less than stock.