Topic: ARD Magneto for Honda CB750, woohoo!

[Terry in Australia]

As I type this, my shiny CB750 ARD magneto that I scored as part of the "Syndicate" deal that I entered into with "Tooth Pick" (Sean Condon) is probably winging it's way towards Oz, ready for some duty on my K1 "Kruiser" until I eventually get my finger out and assemble my race engine. (and the rest of my racer)

It struck me though, that I have no idea how to set it up, so I thought I would throw this out to the collective genius of this forum, has anyone done this before, or does anyone have an original set of fitting instructions for this wonderful device? If not, maybe a link to an on line instruction manual? As usual men, any help will be appreciated! Cheers, Terry. 

[eldar]

so you lookin to go bat-less?

[dec505]

I have installed ARD mags before but only on v-twins. Its as easy as swapping points. Take off your points.  Install the mag rotor check for clearance. then rotate the crank so that it's postion for the right firing order and install the housing. You should set the timing to full advance.There are three wires a red, black and yellow the yellow goes to the kill switch the red and black go to the mags black box. ARD mags are self grounded. Also magnetos are self generating ignition systems and you should never install any wire on the bike to the magneto. Last thing ,you have to use the ARD coils you can not use your stock ones for obvious reasons. Its that easy I might have left something out but just looking at it you should figure it out.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks mate, I think it might be a tad more complicated on my CB750 as it's belt driven from the crank to the maggy, but I understand what you're saying, thanks for that.

so you lookin to go bat-less?

Well sort of Eldy, I bought the ARD for my "racer for the road" project, I want to remove the alternator completely for cornering clearance, and run a "dead loss" system just for lights and blinkers using a small gel-cell battery. I won't need much juice because I won't be riding this bike at night, it's just to keep the cops off my back. Cheers, Terry.

[Bob Wessner]

I want to remove the alternator completely for cornering clearance,

The alternator gets in your way? 

[ofreen]

I want to remove the alternator completely for cornering clearance,

The alternator gets in your way? 

I've touched the alternator cover down on the 750 3 or 4 times.  It is not a good feeling.  Kinda marks it up, too.

[Bob Wessner]

Hmm, guess that says a lot about my riding style. Doubt that I ever even came close.

[scunny]

Sorry to steal your thread but I remember watching an endurance race when the new 750 yamaha seca was released, they had narrowed the motor by shifting the alternater behind the barrels, they all fell off that day, something to do with the tyres not being up to it. This was in the early 80's. I do like the idea of ditching that bloody battery but with my 650 probably not a good idea..

[Terry in Australia]

That's right Scunny, you can ride a bike off it's tires, I did it on my BMW R100RS on a couple of occasions, and it was kinda scary, but I've also pivotted off the alternator cover on my 750's during hard "scratching", (I think the American guys refer to it as "canyon racing", but that sounds a bit "Brokeback Mountain" to me..........) and that was so scary I almost had a "brown moment"!

Hopefully with the 3.5 inch rear alloy rim shod with a 140 rear tire I should have a reasonable "footprint" even when heeled all the way over, otherwise I might mount some little tiller wheels on the knees of my leather trousers, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[Big Jay]

Is this the very early ARD with the points type Fairbanks Morse head ( Ford Tractor), or is it the CDI pointless mag. The CDI version had a retard switch so you could get it started. The older points type did not. It was locked at full advance and the kick starter would kick back against the back of your leg leaving ugly bruises.

They look kinda trick, but the downside is they made less power than a Dyna S and coils.

We used to be an ARD distributor 30 years ago. Still have a box of parts around here somewhere.

Jay

[scondon]

     Sorry if the pics are hard to see, but this is the extent of the ARD ignition that is being shipped to Terry. It was taken apart before I got my mitts on it so if anyone notices anything missing(Big Jay?) let me know.

[cd811]

is someone confused besides me ...magnetos don,t need coils...i've installed a morris mag on a shovelhead and it was a job...the whole cone had to be replaced with new set-up...no wire, just a piece of metal to ground out mag...I did go batless  kind-of...I still needed a steady 12volt for everything to work right(like my sohc750)ya know stator,solid state reg/rec blah blah..so I ditched bat and got a smaller capacitor(12volt storage)...looks to me like if ya got to use coils, ya got a distribitor

[scondon]

The bike this came off of had a horn installed on the coil mount. No coils needed, I guess.

[MRieck]

is someone confused besides me ...magnetos don,t need coils...looks to me like if ya got to use coils, ya got a distribitor

That would be true. The old RC distributor for CB's only benefit was it fired 1 cylinder at a time.

[cd811]

I think either way it looks cool..if it is a true mag...way cool

[Terry in Australia]

is someone confused besides me ...magnetos don,t need coils...i've installed a morris mag on a shovelhead and it was a job...the whole cone had to be replaced with new set-up...no wire, just a piece of metal to ground out mag...I did go batless  kind-of...I still needed a steady 12volt for everything to work right(like my sohc750)ya know stator,solid state reg/rec blah blah..so I ditched bat and got a smaller capacitor(12volt storage)...looks to me like if ya got to use coils, ya got a distribitor

Don't worry CD, there are confused people all around the world as I type this, just ask anyone why the coalition forces invaded Iraq again?

But anyway, as Sean just mentioned, there are no coils, so it's a magneto. Well, that's not actually true, because there are coils inside the magneto, which qualifies it as a distributor too, so, er, wait a minute, what was the question again?

Seriously though, I'm gonna ditch the alternator, starter motor, coils, most of the electrics, big battery etc, and hide any left over electrical gizmos under the seat hump (when I get a seat with a hump, that is) not only will it look cool in a minimalist kind of way, it should reduce the weight somewhat as well.

I know an electronic ignition is better on so many levels, (I have several) but nothing (in my tiny mind, at least) looks as cool! Bruised calves? Who said the kicker is gonna stay? Ha ha, Cheers, Terry.

[cd811]

lmao

electronic ig better?? #$%* that"s a whole can of worms
or was it a can of woopass???
my 74 with mag blew a many of evos with electric ig
anyway where was I?
mags are cool
set them   forget them

[Big Jay]

The photo shows the old points style. You are probably better off with it than the CDI as I don't thing parts for the CDI are available anymore. The mag head on the points style is from an older  Ford tractor, so parts should still be available.

Years ago, it was thought that the ability to fire one cylinder at a time would produce additional power. Then Byron Hines put this to rest with his dyno. That's why today, pro stock dragbikes, the most sophisticated gas burners around ( 325 hp ) fire two holes at a time like a stocker.

But they do look kinda cool, especially if the case is all polished up like they were when new.  It will be interesting finding out how you intend to start it.

Jay

[Terry in Australia]

The photo shows the old points style. You are probably better off with it than the CDI as I don't thing parts for the CDI are available anymore. The mag head on the points style is from an older  Ford tractor, so parts should still be available.

Years ago, it was thought that the ability to fire one cylinder at a time would produce additional power. Then Byron Hines put this to rest with his dyno. That's why today, pro stock dragbikes, the most sophisticated gas burners around ( 325 hp ) fire two holes at a time like a stocker.

But they do look kinda cool, especially if the case is all polished up like they were when new.  It will be interesting finding out how you intend to start it.

Jay

Thanks for that Jay, if you find that box of ARD bits, I want first dibs! Actually, the kicker will stay, I'm too old and fat for a "Le Mans" style starting routine, but I do remember from my old Yamaha TX500 twin and XT500 single days the joy of copping the kicker in the back of the leg, so I might devise a set of powered "rollers" to start it when it's in the garage.

I've actually bought a couple of old Fairbanks Morse magneto's for spares, and I see that a lot of NOS parts are still available for them, and I'm toying with the idea of getting some alloy belt housings etc cast up by a local foundry with the intention of making my own "TRD" ( ) magneto's for CB750's, but that might be a way off. Do you have any "set up" instructions? Cheers, Terry.

[dusterdude]

nothin beats a mag.

[Big Jay]

nothin beats a mag.

Not so. A mag is a generator. It developes its own spark. Therefore it takes power to turn the mag. This is power deducted from the crank shaft. Unlike a mag, Dyna S, Dyna 2000s, etc put zero load on the motor.
Even the Harley fuel guys don't use them anymore.

Jay

[Big Jay]

Terry... We are moving into new facilities in a couple of months. I am sure that during the move, that box of ARD parts will turn up. I will go through it and let you know what I have.

Jay

[Terry in Australia]

Terry... We are moving into new facilities in a couple of months. I am sure that during the move, that box of ARD parts will turn up. I will go through it and let you know what I have.

Jay

Thanks Jay!