Author Topic: Brake Fluid Leak  (Read 2212 times)

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Offline Jared

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Brake Fluid Leak
« on: November 24, 2010, 09:13:43 PM »
Howdy,

It appears that my front brake is leaking brake fluid all over the caliper. The leak is not coming from the bleed screw or the the mc. Is the only other option that it is leaking from the piston, possibly from a bad seal?

Thanks,

Jared

Offline scunny

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2010, 09:20:32 PM »
could also be the brake union joint at the caliper.
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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2010, 03:22:53 AM »
A good disassembly and cleaning will usually cure the leak.  If not, seal kit and a good cleaning. 

Offline Kong

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2010, 07:02:45 AM »
That's an interesting comment and no doubt dead accurate, that just taking it apart and putting it back together might cure the problem.

These Honda brake calipers are he height of simplicity; let me recount.  The body is made in two halfs, held together by two bolts. One half holds one of the brake pads and has no moving parts.  The other half is simply a block of aluminum with three holes drilled in it; one large and two small.  The first of the two small holes is the hole where the brake line screws into the caliper and is how fluid is delivered (under great pressure) to the caliper and it extends into the bottom of the big hole.  The second small hole is where the bleeder screws in, this hole also extends into the bottom of the big hold.  The bleeder hole is there to allow air to be evacuated from the system as fluid is initially added.  The big hole is the important one.  It has to be very smooth and it also has a deep groove machined into its diameter to hold the "seal".  A piston fits into the big hole and that piston is pushed from the rear by the high pressure brake fluid that enters through the first small hole when the brakes are applied  On the front end of the piston there will be a small plastic free-floating ring* and then the other brake pad.  And that's all there is to it. 

If your brake is leaking there are only three places where it can be happening.  Going back to the explanation above you can see it might come from a cracked caliper, which I've never heard of happening.  It might come from a lose bleeder, but your's isn't.  It might also come from a lose brake line fitting where it screws into the caliper, but your's isn't.  Finally all that is left is that it might be leaking from where the piston fits into the big hole, and that's got a seal riding in the grove mentioned above.  Because its the last thing left it must be your problem.  So that was easy enough.

Now the seal. The seal in this case is just a square shouldered rubber washer, its about an eight-inch square and an inch in diameter.  So, you pick the old one out of the grove, take a new one and lube it with silicon lubricant and stick it back in the grove, put the piston back in, put the whole thing back together, bleed it, and you're on your way.  Also easy enough. 

Now a thought on the seal.  That seal doesn't actually wear out, it becomes inelastic.  So often just removing it, cleaning it, moving it around and reinserting it with a different orientation in its grove will be enough for it to start doing its job all over again.  Just like magic it sort of fixes itself because you laid on hands.  Of course if the process of deterioration of the rubber has already begun the fix will be short lived, but it will buy you time.  A new seal, by the way, can be had for ten bucks.  Although I haven't gone looking for one yet I'd be almost willing to bet that the seal is a common item in the hydraulics trades and can be had for a lot less, but that's another matter.


* Often this ring will be lost, and if it is not replaced the brakes will squeal.
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Offline Johnie

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2010, 07:19:52 AM »
Don't know what bike you have there, but the parts for the vintage 750's are still available from Honda. I would stay clear of the aftermarket brake parts...JMO.
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Offline Jared

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2010, 03:59:31 PM »
I've disassembled and cleaned, only to notice some very slight pitting on the piston. Could this be the root of the problem? After reassembling, the leak seems to have gotten worse; I can see the fluid dripping down from the piston area. I think I will try the new rubber seal next.

Jared

Offline Johnie

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2010, 06:14:24 AM »
As long as you had it apart it would have been a good idea to change that seal out, but now you have really narrowed down the problem. The piston usually is OK with a some "slight pitting" as you mentioned. The seal was still available from Honda for my early 750k's. I would stay away from the after market seals. Be sure to really clean out the groove the seal sits in. I use a Dremel with brass brush and it works well. The walls of the caliper may need some honing depending on their condition too.
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

Offline Duanob

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2010, 08:05:30 AM »
That very well could be. There are aftermarket cylinders on here that other members have raved about. Good luck finding a used OEM one that isn't pitted. When I rebuilt my caliper I noticed a bit of pitting but used it anyway and I got lucky, no leaks. You just weren't that lucky.

I've disassembled and cleaned, only to notice some very slight pitting on the piston. Could this be the root of the problem? After reassembling, the leak seems to have gotten worse; I can see the fluid dripping down from the piston area. I think I will try the new rubber seal next.

Jared
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 08:08:05 AM by Duanob »
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Offline Madmax01

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 10:27:30 PM »
Just got done pulling my caliper apart for cleaning.  It wasn't leaking.  I was just following up on my project to add SS lines.  During disassembly I noticed a cork like gasket between the calipers and the caliper arm.  It was pretty ugly. I haven't seen anyone talk about this gasket or mention replacing it.  Can I go with the old one?  Also, Kong above mentions a free floating ring against the piston and the puck.  I didn't see one on my K0.  Did I miss it or was it already lost by a PO?  Lastly, my piston doesn't seem to want to drop back in to the cylinder unless I turn it over backwards.  When it drops in its really smooth.  Am I just mis-aligning it?  I've tried all sorts of angles.  Thanks for the thoughts.   

Offline Kong

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 05:05:58 AM »
If it goes in smooth backwards its still backwards.

One of the members here is modifying a modern Lincoln (Ford) master cylinder piston to be used in the Honda calipers.  His piston is made of (please excuse the spelling) pneolic resin  and are indestructible.  They cost about half as much as a new stock one and will last forever.  He is also selling them on E-Bay.  They are a good investment in you well being.

By the way, what kills the brake systems on these bikes and other vehicles too is corrosion caused by the hydroscopic nature of brake fluid.  Brake fluid absorbs water out of the air both through the system's vent and through the flexible sections of the brake lines.  Over time that small amount of water attacks the piston and the resulting corrosion pits it.  The cure for this malady?  Change your brake fluid about once a year and you'll never have the problem again.
2002 FXSTD/I  Softail Deuce
2001 Acura (Honda) CL Type-S
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Offline Madmax01

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2011, 04:50:57 PM »
Thoughts on that cork like gasket against the caliper?   ???

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2011, 06:51:46 PM »
Often the pitting is on the piston above the seal area (dry side) and this will have no bearing on operation.  If you are really neat you can fill the pits with JB Weld.  Use a thin flexible plastic scraper for this and sand smooth if needed with very fine grit sandpaper.  I just make the scraper cut from a plastic jug.  Worked well for me.

Offline Duanob

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Re: Brake Fluid Leak
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2011, 11:56:45 AM »
Thoughts on that cork like gasket against the caliper?   ???
Hey max maybe post a picture of it?
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

  __o
_- \_<,
(*) /' (*)