Topic: New member, new project.

[Nikkisixx]

Just letting you know as it would be a shame to get a tank that needed modifying. A lot of guys do use these front ends including myself and a lot of guys don't know how unstable bad rake and trail numbers can be. Can't remember it off the top of my head but it is something like, longer trail numbers make the bike more stable but makes steering harder and shorter trail makes steering easier but makes the bike more "nervous"....Just saying in case you weren't sure. I have a mate up north that put offset triple clamps on his Harley and it nearly killed him, it steered like crap and was all over the road, my point is, just because everyone does it doesn't mean they do it right...   Looking good by the way....

Mick

Reduced triple offset will increase trail. The effect will be greater high speed stability at the expense of neutral steering and agility. Certainly not a life threatening compromise on these bikes.

Those forks look scary steep to me, but it may be camera angle or the lack of a tire changing the angle.  Either way, I'd measure the geometry just to know what to expect on that first ride. 

[englishwheeler]

Ok, well I certainly didn't want this thread to be about a debate on rake and trail. There are many websites out there that discuss that to death.
You guys can debate it all you want, but I want this to be about doing this conversion for others. I wanted to show how I'm going about it with a different sized axle than others.

The front end will be fine, others have done it and I don't see what can be different with my bike when I'm using the same frame and front end as everyone else.
All of the other bikes I've made were built from scratch and I've measured their rake and trail and all is well.
I appreciate everyone's concern, but don't want to get side tracked.

My bike is certainly not setting the way it should in these pictures. If you would look closely, the rim is setting on the ground, I have no tire mounted. The back end is also really high up. Everything here is just setting the way it is for front end mock up.

So, thanks again for checking on it. I just want to get back to the regularly scheduled program.


Tomorrow is going to be focused on getting the rotors spaced to meet the calipers correctly. Then it's on to mounting the rear shock.

[HalfFastMoto]

Those forks look scary steep to me, but it may be camera angle or the lack of a tire changing the angle.  Either way, I'd measure the geometry just to know what to expect on that first ride. 

Note that there's no tire on the front and there is a tire on the rear which would exaggerate the rake.

[Retro Rocket]

Ok, well I certainly didn't want this thread to be about a debate on rake and trail. There are many websites out there that discuss that to death.
You guys can debate it all you want, but I want this to be about doing this conversion for others. I wanted to show how I'm going about it with a different sized axle than others.

Thats fine , my comments were for everyone, rake and trail is a mystery for most and plenty of people don't know about it at all. I also have a GSXR front end and member "industrial Cafe" has done  what you are trying to do now.... I think he used a Harley hub...

Mick

[englishwheeler]

Mick,
  Yes, the Harley wheel has been done before. I know this. Squirrely, Industrial Cafe, and Staggerlee have all done it. Those guys did it with a 1" axle Harley wheel. You have to buy an 08+ wheel for this. I am doing this with a 00+ Harley wheel with a 3/4" axle.

What I don't want to see is guys doing this conversion using this same hub and boring out the center to accept that 1" axle. This isn't the safest way to do it.

My point of all of this is to show how to make this front end accept the 3/4" axle and be safe.

I think I'm gonna just call it quits for now and come back when I have more done. I really don't want to discuss front end stuff anymore.

[Retro Rocket]

 Funny, You've put it on a forum mate, thats why it is being discussed. Anyway forget the front end,   is it possible to get different bearings to mate up to the axle using the wheels outside diameter and the axle's inside diameter.?

Mick

[Nikkisixx]

Those forks look scary steep to me, but it may be camera angle or the lack of a tire changing the angle.  Either way, I'd measure the geometry just to know what to expect on that first ride. 

Hey man, I respect what you are doing.  I'm not saying you are going to die in a fiery crash and win a Darwin Award for your work on your bike.  You must admit that measuring the trail and rake is an important step in making these modifications.  If you intend this thread to be a trail of breadcrumbs for the next guy to follow, post the measurements.  Heck, I'd sure like to know what those numbers are before I get into it. 

[englishwheeler]

Nikkisixx,
  I don't mind posting measurements. I just haven't gotten that far yet. I hope to post some more today. I have crazy work schedule so I do this stuff when I get time.

Mick,
 You can get bearings to do this...it has been addressed before. The problem is. The harley hub with a 3/4" axle needs to be enlarged through the center to accept the bearing spacer that fits over the 1" axle.
It seems questionable as to whether it's safe to bore the inside of the hub out to fit this spacer in there. I haven't done it, so I don't know for sure.
But yes, there stock GSXR bearings will press in to the harley hub and accomodate the stock 25mm axle.

So...moving on...
To mount the front end to the frame. All you have to do is use the stock size lower neck bearing on the bottom...it fits perfectly to the GSXR Stem. Then call All Balls Racing and tell them you're doing the front end swap and need the top bearing. They will hook you up with a combination they special made for us to do this. I just ordered one yesterday and it will be here Thursday!
 www.allballsracing.com

[Retro Rocket]

I don't know if you read this or not but the standard Honda stem will also press fit into the GSXR triple clamps...

Mick

[Owned]

Looking nice Englishwheeler!  All, I can vouch for his metal crafting abilities.  This bike will look fantastic as it progresses.  I know as he built the tail on my 350F and another for my new 400F project! 

Oh, by the way I have the kits needed for your carbs.  I'll get cracking on them very soon.

[Jordan]

decrease trail and bike will want to continue to fall over in a turn, increase trail and bike will be harder to turn but have increased stability going straight, too far either way makes it unstable and dangerous. At least this is what I read this morning and how I understood it in Proficient Motorcycling by Hough. Had a cb450t in the 70's with longer fork tubes and it was a real beotch. Luckily it was stolen before it killed me. (police called one day about a year later and said it was used in a bank robbery). Wanted to know if I wanted it back, it was a pile of parts as perp wreaked it in the chase.

[englishwheeler]

Here's a bit of progress:



Going for this look in the end.



Can't wait to get to the aluminum tank and tail. I'm gonna do stainless exhaust too.

The rear shock is nice. Seems to have very nice action and rebound. Bet it's gonna be a nice ride!

[Retro Rocket]

I would have raised the rear frame section after testing the amount of travel in the rear, i bet that tyre hits the frame....apart from that i like your mono shock set up....

Mick

[englishwheeler]

Gday mate! I should have put a timer on this thread to see how long it would take you to chime in.

Tire...or tyre... doesn't hit frame, and to make it even better, I'm putting a kick up in the rear of the tail to add even more clearance.

Thanks for the compliment though!

[gsnorcal]

Looking good, Wheeler. Nice swingarm work.

Dave

[Retro Rocket]

Gday mate! I should have put a timer on this thread to see how long it would take you to chime in. Grin

Been here for a while, besides, anything with a monoshock or modern mods will always get my attention.....

Mick

[Zaipai]

Its going to look great. I bet she rides real nice when your done..

.: Scott :.

[englishwheeler]

A little progress has been made.

Got the seat rails curved up and smoothed down. Then made the seat base plate.



The tail section carved out of foam. Will have some other added touches not shown here. I'm debating whether I like this shape. I'm also debating whether or not to cover the tubes in the back.




The next thing will be to carve the tank out of foam. Then on with some aluminum shaping! My favorite part.

[luap]

solid work man.. could you tell me the angle between the top of the swing arm an the bottom of the hoop for your mono shock an did you weld the hoop to the swing arm right at the stock location for the dual shocks?
might have to say giving squirley bike a run for its money when its done. good luck on your build

[englishwheeler]

A little more progress has been made. I've gotten the tank mocked up with foam and wood. I then got the tail section shaped and nearly finished.

Crappy cell phone pics...




 
 

The bung in the rear....I know how that sounds  , is for my LED taillight I'm going to use. I was originally going to french it in, but I'm thinking I like it sticking out a little bit. I have plans for some more aluminum work to make a raised vent on the tail that is reminiscent of old aircraft and belly tank racers.
Battery and most electrics will be inside tail.

For access to all this, I'm planning on an access panel on the front of the tail. All the extra aluminum work will be accented with hard rivets.

The engine is at a friend's house who is doing a spruce up in trade for some work on his bike. So, slow....but steady as she goes.

[englishwheeler]

Here is a bit of progress. Got the tail section nearly finished. Mainly some cosmetic blending around the taillight and couple of welds.

I'm debating putting a pseudo-vent on the top, like a teardrop shaped cowl. Sorta like the piece behind the driver's head on an old midget car.

[englishwheeler]

Sunk in some turn signals/extra brake lights. These are twin electrode LED's. I thought I would wire them as turn signals and brake lights, but my brake light in the tail is so bright I don't need them....it's almost offensively bright.

[englishwheeler]

Put the motor back in so I could do the exhaust and rear sets.

Mounted the tank and took her outside to see what she is looking like.

Pretty gnarly I think.

[Flying J]

Man.... i read this thread (and your bike looks great) but i really wanted to see how you made the tank and seat. I want to build my own tank for my next cafe. Oh well, looks great so ill subscribe.

[englishwheeler]

FJ,
Yeah, sorry for not posting pics. It's a long and tedious process that I figured most won't really want to see. When you go to make your tank, let me know and I can help you over the net if you want. It just takes practice and patience.
Can't wait to see what you come up with.