Author Topic: It's running, kinda.... need some help please? (Read 17046 times)

BrianAdair · « **Reply #100 on:** January 31, 2011, 09:24:39 AM »

Well, He just came by..... I didn't get much from him

He was like, your already running at 1k rpm @ idle sync the carbs and run it for a while taking it up to 4 or 5k and see if it smooths out.

We pulled the plugs and turned it over with the starter several times and nothing seems to be tapping, clattering, or hitting, its very smooth!
I had the plugs in the head before it was installed to check where they were and they are up in the head enough that I know they aren't making contact. The only weird thing is my oil pressure, he seems to think maybe the oil pump is weak or not enough oil in it.
I have 3 quarts in it, but I have a custom tank so I'm not sure what its capacity is, but when running it will be at 60psi and then drop to 0 then rise back up to 60psi, so he said it maybe getting dry spots.
We didn't run it very long as I'm scared too, but he said he didn't really get to hear it long enough, but after turning it over with the plugs out and hearing no contact or roughness, he said if it was his he would run it.
He asked me if the rocker arms, rods, and cam towers were all in good shape and no slop in them, said they could be tapping if they had play in them. All that was in good shape and tight.

May add another quart of oil, "it will fit in my tank" and see what happens...

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #101 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:43:50 PM »

Brian, I just heard your last video and that is not good. I don't care who the guy was that looked at it but if it was me, I wouldn't run it again.
There are enough people on here to get good info from and there must be someone near to you that can help.
I saw your cam and it looks to have a lot of duration. There are only one or two performance cams that can be set up on Hondas stock cam timing, all the others need an adjustable cam sprocket to set them up properly.
Please don't run it again, get some help.

Sam.

scottly · « **Reply #102 on:** January 31, 2011, 06:28:45 PM »

If you did a proper clay clearance test, and it sounds like you did, I wouldn't worry about valve/piston contact. I'm more concerned with about the fluctuating oil pressure. What kind of gauge are you using? Mechanical or electric? Have you verified oil is getting to the top end? Also, you stated you could "feel" the noise in the cam cover. I would take a good look at the underside of the cover, especially near the tappet covers, for witness marks of contact with the rocker arm.

BrianAdair · « **Reply #103 on:** January 31, 2011, 07:42:02 PM »

Quote from: scottly on January 31, 2011, 06:28:45 PM

If you did a proper clay clearance test, and it sounds like you did, I wouldn't worry about valve/piston contact. I'm more concerned with about the fluctuating oil pressure. What kind of gauge are you using? Mechanical or electric? Have you verified oil is getting to the top end? Also, you stated you could "feel" the noise in the cam cover. I would take a good look at the underside of the cover, especially near the tappet covers, for witness marks of contact with the rocker arm.

I hope your right about the rocker hitting the tappet covers i didn't think of that......

It seems it could be possible cause to me they seem to be very high compared to the way they were stock.

mechanical oil gauge, added 3/4 quart of oil and the fluctuating stopped. Yes oil is getting to the top end it was slinging it out the tach cable hole, and I also had a tappet on #1 off to check and make sure it was getting to that side.

Pulled the plugs today, turned it over forever, smooth! no tapping to noise, no contact.
Used a pen light and a wrench on the crank bolt and slowly rotated and looked through the plug hole, no marks on pistons, and also got the piston to where it was closest to the Exhaust valve, but not touching...

scottly · « **Reply #104 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:20:07 PM »

Something else you might look at, while you have the cam cover off, is the rocker-arm shafts, and the bores they ride in. I think I recall posts from Hondaman regarding wear there?

MCRider · « **Reply #105 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:21:47 PM »

The tappet is at its highest visible point when the heel of the rocker is on the lowest point of the cam lobe. Once the heel of the rocker mounts the lobe, the tappet end is moving away from the cover. So unless the cam was really poorly manufactured with way over size base circles, doubtful, that's not likely the problem.

What the big bumps on the cam could do is push the valve keeper/retainer down so low it would hit the top of the guide. The seals are there and upon disassembly they would be smacked around if this were happening. Or you could get coil bind, don't know if that makes a noise or not. I think we're really get way out there with these speculations.

Glad the pressure straightened out.

If you're getting oil out the tach cable hole, you need a new seal. Oil shouldnot come out there. Sorry.

BrianAdair · « **Reply #106 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:29:30 PM »

Yea, I don't have the seal, and it was before I installed the cable also. Seems the casting of the cam lobes are bigger, or thicker even on the flat side "valve closed", than the stock cam.
The rocker arm shafts were good, and no slop in the cam towers.

MCRider · « **Reply #107 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:34:53 PM »

So you should see scars on the underside of the tappet covers if there is contact there.

bear · « **Reply #108 on:** February 01, 2011, 04:55:56 AM »

OK
I've tried to take a step back from this one and I suspect so have the staggers like MRieck and co.
Brian, don't run that motor.
I'm not a bike mechanics bum, but somethings banging on something.
These per-cuters are a great thing but we can't be there.
I've broken a sh!t load of these motors over the last 30 years and my mates sort it out I just ride the things.
I AM NO MECHANIC.
You need to pull that motor and sort it out.
Get over it, and do it

Cheers,
Brian

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #109 on:** February 01, 2011, 05:13:02 AM »

Quote from: bear on February 01, 2011, 04:55:56 AM

OK
I've tried to take a step back from this one and I suspect so have the staggers like MRieck and co.
Brian, don't run that motor.
You need to pull that motor and sort it out.
Get over it, and do it

Cheers,
Brian

Brian's right - there are too many variables that you haven't dealt with and systematically eliminated Brian and that thing sounds way wrong. One telling comment you made though - pulling all the plugs and turning it over it's as quiet as a quiet thing....installing the plugs and it's back to that awful noise.....call me suspicious but them plugs sound like a major factor in this...

Doctor_D · « **Reply #110 on:** February 01, 2011, 08:43:48 AM »

If I tore down a motor after a dozen successful dyno runs to check all my tolerances, etc, that should say something.

Yes, it sucks to pull the engine. However, not doing it may suck a lot more.

MRieck · « **Reply #111 on:** February 01, 2011, 09:36:42 AM »

Quote from: Doctor_D on February 01, 2011, 08:43:48 AM

If I tore down a motor after a dozen successful dyno runs to check all my tolerances, etc, that should say something.

Yes, it sucks to pull the engine. However, not doing it may suck a lot more.

I agree but I've done it before. It can bring a man to tears.

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #112 on:** February 01, 2011, 12:15:53 PM »

Quote from: MRieck on February 01, 2011, 09:36:42 AM

Quote from: Doctor_D on February 01, 2011, 08:43:48 AM
If I tore down a motor after a dozen successful dyno runs to check all my tolerances, etc, that should say something.

Yes, it sucks to pull the engine. However, not doing it may suck a lot more.
I agree but I've done it before. It can bring a man to tears.

And it's better that it sucks than it goes >BANG!<

BrianAdair · « **Reply #113 on:** February 01, 2011, 03:34:57 PM »

I hear ya guys!

I agree also!
That's why I tore it down today, kinda sucked, but not really, took about 30 mins.
Found the exhaust valves were kissing the pistons, had about a .005 indent in them, intake seems to be good.
I'm dishing the pistons out a little more and going to do a check on the valves to make sure they are strait, and don't leak.
Should have it back up and going tomorrow!

MRieck · « **Reply #114 on:** February 01, 2011, 04:12:04 PM »

Quote from: Brian77cb750 on February 01, 2011, 03:34:57 PM

I hear ya guys!
I agree also!
That's why I tore it down today, kinda sucked, but not really, took about 30 mins.
Found the exhaust valves were kissing the pistons, had about a .005 indent in them, intake seems to be good.
I'm dishing the pistons out a little more and going to do a check on the valves to make sure they are strait, and don't leak.
Should have it back up and going tomorrow!

Good man. those exhaust valves are always a nuisance.

Hope they are straight....if not let me know as I can get whatever you want for a good price.

BrianAdair · « **Reply #115 on:** February 01, 2011, 04:55:23 PM »

thank you, MRiek! I will let you know if I need some! I'll post results and maybe a new video tomorow.

MCRider · « **Reply #116 on:** February 01, 2011, 05:24:44 PM »

Try and post a new audio/video as close to the last video as possible as far as where its sitting in the garage and the camera and everything. Seems I need to teach my ear a thing or two.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #117 on:** February 01, 2011, 05:26:59 PM »

Quote from: Brian77cb750 on February 01, 2011, 03:34:57 PM

I hear ya guys!
I agree also!
That's why I tore it down today, kinda sucked, but not really, took about 30 mins.
Found the exhaust valves were kissing the pistons, had about a .005 indent in them, intake seems to be good.
I'm dishing the pistons out a little more and going to do a check on the valves to make sure they are strait, and don't leak.
Should have it back up and going tomorrow!

Why do you think this didnt show up when you clayed it?

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #118 on:** February 02, 2011, 01:36:10 AM »

Quote from: Brian77cb750 on February 01, 2011, 03:34:57 PM

I hear ya guys!
I agree also!
That's why I tore it down today, kinda sucked, but not really, took about 30 mins.
Found the exhaust valves were kissing the pistons, had about a .005 indent in them, intake seems to be good.
I'm dishing the pistons out a little more and going to do a check on the valves to make sure they are strait, and don't leak.
Should have it back up and going tomorrow!

Good on ya Brian - not everyone can take feedback and respond to it constructively, so you got balls at least and of course you get great feedback from the experienced guys on this forum. It's a great place isn't it?

Hope the valves are OK and lookin' forward to a new video soon!

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #119 on:** February 02, 2011, 04:27:05 AM »

Quote from: Brian77cb750 on February 01, 2011, 04:55:23 PM

thank you, MRiek! I will let you know if I need some! I'll post results and maybe a new video tomorow.

without the nasty sound effects I hope.

Well done for stripping it and not following the advise of your so called expert.

Sam.

BrianAdair · « **Reply #120 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:25:55 PM »

Well, with better inspection today, I'm going to replaces, valve guides, valves, and head gasket.

I took the bike to the guy I have been getting all the NOS parts from, before tearing it down, he listened to it, and then told me I could just tear it down and do the work in his shop. So he has been very helpful, and has a ton of parts, he found a new set of all stainless valves he is going to let me buy at a steal I think

but doesn't have a set of guides, or a copper head gasket.

I have removed the guides, and cleaned everything up, just need to get some parts.

I was looking at Dynoman, Cycle X, and APE.

Where is a good place to get all of it?

guides, head gasket, valve cover gasket.

I need a head gasket that is at-least .056 thick, that's what the other one was, and I don't think the stock .043 would work as I would have the same problem again.
Dynoman has the copper listed up to .050, if I could find a composite that was thicker, it might be a little cheaper...?

I ordered my springs and cam sprocket from dynoman and it was super fast shipping!
The down side is paying shipping plus sales tax.... $:-\$
Does APE have a thicker gasket than what they list on their site?

MRieck · « **Reply #121 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:30:35 PM »

Quote from: Brian77cb750 on February 02, 2011, 05:25:55 PM

Well, with better inspection today, I'm going to replaces, valve guides, valves, and head gasket.

I took the bike to the guy I have been getting all the NOS parts from, before tearing it down, he listened to it, and then told me I could just tear it down and do the work in his shop. So he has been very helpful, and has a ton of parts, he found a new set of all stainless valves he is going to let me buy at a steal I think but doesn't have a set of guides, or a copper head gasket.

I have removed the guides, and cleaned everything up, just need to get some parts.

I was looking at Dynoman, Cycle X, and APE.

Where is a good place to get all of it?

guides, head gasket, valve cover gasket.

I need a head gasket that is at-least .056 thick, that's what the other one was, and I don't think the stock .043 would work as I would have the same problem again.
Dynoman has the copper listed up to .050, if I could find a composite that was thicker, it might be a little cheaper...?

I ordered my springs and cam sprocket from dynoman and it was super fast shipping!
The down side is paying shipping plus sales tax.... $:-\$
Does APE have a thicker gasket than what they list on their site?

You can call Cometic directly and they will make whatever thickness you need. Look on their website for more info.

mlinder · « **Reply #122 on:** February 02, 2011, 06:01:08 PM »

You needa slotted cam gear.

BrianAdair · « **Reply #123 on:** February 02, 2011, 06:15:35 PM »

Quote from: mlinder on February 02, 2011, 06:01:08 PM

You needa slotted cam gear.

I Have one, bought it with the HD springs.

BrianAdair · « **Reply #124 on:** February 02, 2011, 06:23:54 PM »

Ok, so with no specs on the cam, not knowing what the valves are suppose to open and close at.
Just lining the marks up and running it like that, is it possible even with the marks and notch dead on, that the cam is marked wrong, and that it needs to be advanced a bit to make the valves close sooner, so the piston is not making contact on it's way up?

I'm guessing finding the lobe centers, and just making it the same degree each way for intake and exhaust is my only option?

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Author Topic: It's running, kinda.... need some help please? (Read 17046 times)