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Author Topic: 76 550K wont fire right on 1-4 video added!!  (Read 14068 times)

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Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2010, 11:34:35 AM »
Okay compression shows on a VERY cold engine at 120psi for each cylinder and 130 on cylinder 1.

Good?
Bad?
Or just plain ugly?
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2010, 12:06:21 PM »
Oh and I definitely believe there is gas in the oil.

But I don't know when this occurred in the past but I have the carbs set as they should be now. I haven't seen any gas pour out of the over flow tubes since I brought it home.

No trash in the screen where the oil pump is. Gonna button her back up, put fresh oil in and gas. And see what happens.

Stay tuned.....
 ;D
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2010, 03:55:50 PM »
Well I finally got it to run off all 4. Whoopie!
But its blowing out a lot of black smoke and the new spark plugs are black and have a lot of soot. So tomorrow ill go back to the floats and lower the amount of fuel letting in and double check air mix screws.

No oil out of breather tube.

The point gap is set at .014 and the timing is dead on but I turned off the lights to and noticed the spark that flies between them are intermittent at best. May have to put new points in it. Anyone have experience with the intermittent spark? I never paid that much attention to it. Is it supposed to be like that ?

After all that ill sync the carbs and start on the cosmetics.

Thanks for everyone's input. It helps a lot.
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline Duanob

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2010, 05:28:13 PM »
Quote
Anyone have experience with the intermittent spark?

Bad condensors? Plug wires or caps. Coils. Start working your way backwards from the plugs and test everything. Process of elimintation.
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2010, 05:47:44 PM »
120 compression sounds fine. Sounds like your running rich.
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'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2010, 06:05:33 PM »
Jag... (Howdy ! ).... intermittent sparking at the points is normal and caused by 'back EMF'.... ask Two Tired  ;)... but it is normal on our SOHC's.
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Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2010, 06:15:49 PM »
Quote from: Duanob on December 16, 2010, 05:28:13 PM
Quote
Anyone have experience with the intermittent spark?

Bad condensors? Plug wires or caps. Coils. Start working your way backwards from the plugs and test everything. Process of elimintation.

I put the coils on it a while back and the ohm readings came out perfect. The spark plugs are brand new, bought them this evening. I do hate these caps however. They don't seem to fit as snug as I would like.

I'll check on the condensors.

Quote from: Stev-O on December 16, 2010, 05:47:44 PM
120 compression sounds fine. Sounds like your running rich.

Definitely running rich. I went back out into the garage after going out to eat and the fumes in the air still burn my eyes out of their sockets!  :D :D

I'm going to address the floats tomorrow.

Quote from: Spanner 1 on December 16, 2010, 06:05:33 PM
Jag... (Howdy ! ).... intermittent sparking at the points is normal and caused by 'back EMF'.... ask Two Tired  ;)... but it is normal on our SOHC's.

Howdy Spanner!! Two Tired knows his stuff so I won't worry about it too much. Thanks for the heads up. What does 'back EMF' stand for? I'm not familiar with that?
I hope we can do some riding together again next spring when it warms up.
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2010, 10:16:49 PM »
Make certain the carb's overflow tubes are clear, and not plugged up by insect nests.  Plugged tubes render them ineffective.
Also, check the stand pipes in tha carb bowls to prove they are clear.

EMF stands for ElectroMotive Force.  The collapsing magnetic field of the coil generates a voltage in the secondary of the coil for spark.  But, as the primary is also within that magnetic field, a voltage is also generated there from the collapsing field, and that voltage travels the wires back toward the points/condenser.

Cheers,
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2010, 01:29:32 PM »
Well had it running. Adjusted the floats so it wouldn't run with do much gas and even synced the carbs. Now I am having intermittent firing from 1 and 4.

It'll come on hit a few times the revs shoot up and then it dies back down to only hitting off of 2-3..

I went through all the wiring. Sprayed some electronic cleaner in all the wiring. Nothing.

I even changed out the whole coil and still nothing.

Went to the points and checked all the wiring all is good there.

I'm at a loss.

Ahh I love working on them but damn it can be so frustrating.

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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2010, 01:40:51 PM »
Have you cleaned the point contact surfaces, adjusted gap and timing?
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2010, 02:52:22 PM »
I noticed a little pitting on the 2-3 point but not on the 1-4.
I used some fine grit sandpaper to smooth both out and cleaned it off with a business card. The gap is set at .014 and the widest opening of the point and the timing was check with a timing light and it seems perfect.

I re checked gas levels and made sure the needle valves were moving as they should. I can now get it to run off of 2,3,4. And 1 comes on every once and a while then dies back off and just blows white/grey smoke. I let it run for a while to see if it would come alive and it started to spit, puke and backfire out of the exhaust (not sure which exhaust or if its all of them) and then died.

Now I cant get it started at all. Only thing she may do is backfire and sputtered and I think she is cursing me every once and a while.
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2010, 03:05:06 PM »
.....and I was thinking about doing this for a living.

I need to stamp "FAILED" it big red letters across my forehead. Hahaha.
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2010, 04:02:46 PM »
Something is obviously wrong and you are overlooking it.
Take a break and then start at the beginning.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2010, 05:09:05 PM »
What do the spark plug tips look like.  And do you have new ones to try out.

How old are the condensers?  Can you test them or swap them with known good ones?

Sand is an insulator.  And, it leaves tiny particles in the soft metal of the points.  Should be ok short term. not so much long term.  Expect early maintenance on those points.

Is the fuel clean in the float bowls.  Particles moving about in there can cause intermittent pilot jet blockage.

Have you vacuum synch'd the carbs yet?

If you want to do wrenching for money, I recommend taking a methodical approach to troubleshooting.  Otherwise, you just waste yours and your customer's time.

Cheers,


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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2010, 08:09:36 PM »
Spark plugs were brand new yesterday and turned black with a lot of soot do to the extreme richness of fuel. I plan on buying new ones tomorrow for back up.

Condensors, as far as I know are the same sense they rolled out of the factory. I don't have any cb550s but I do have two cb750s that have perfect ones. Interchangeable?

Fuel actually looks great.

I synced the carbs this morning, yet it still had too rich of fuel so I adjusted the floats again, and then it went all down hill from there.
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2010, 08:10:49 PM »
Quote from: Stev-O on December 17, 2010, 04:02:46 PM
Something is obviously wrong and you are overlooking it.
Take a break and then start at the beginning.

I'm going to start on that Sunday. Going to take Saturday off to digest everything.
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline jimkalfakis

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2010, 12:57:02 PM »
I`m sorry, this guy has carb problems. I read the whole thread and that's my gut feeling. Something is missing. JAG! Can you get some pictures? Something is missing in the carbs.
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Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2010, 03:39:19 PM »
Quote from: jimkalfakis on December 18, 2010, 12:57:02 PM
I`m sorry, this guy has carb problems. I read the whole thread and that's my gut feeling. Something is missing. JAG! Can you get some pictures? Something is missing in the carbs.

There is somethin definitely missing. Haha. I have been working on everything and trying to start with 1/4 tank of gas and can never get it to flow well when the petcock is set to the ON position. I filled the tank all the way up and it still flows fine in the reserve position but never good on the ON position. I've taken the petcock off 3 times and there is absolutely no debris or blockages. But now I know it is definitely gettin gas. It's run off 2-3-4 but 1 only sputters and comes alive intermittently. I'm going to put another brand new spark plug in it tomorrow. And see if that changes things.

Re checked the gas levels in the bowls and they are spot on. All are even.

I took off my whole points assembly off my 750 and put them on. While I do see more spark jumping the condition is still the exact same.

3-4 blows fine out of the exhaust. It's hot and there is no soot blowing or rich gasoline meaning no black smoke.1-2 however when 1 actually fires my hand gets nasty and black from whatever is flying out the exhaust. Not sure if it is coming from 1 or both. Haven't really paid attention. I really am just trying to get them all to fire at the same time.

What could I be missing from the Carbs? I'll take a thousand pictures for ya if it'll help remedy my problem. What pictures in particular would you like too see my friend?

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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2010, 03:47:13 PM »
Have you cleaned the carbs? If not, get busy!
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2010, 05:54:44 PM »
Take the pilot jet out of # one and hold it up to the light.  Is the orifice blocked?
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline jimkalfakis

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2010, 06:14:46 PM »
I know you took the carbs off a million times. >:(  Are you sure you got all of the emulsifiers in place? Hey, you never know. I would make mistakes like that.
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Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2010, 06:24:05 PM »
Quote from: jimkalfakis on December 19, 2010, 06:14:46 PM
I know you took the carbs off a million times. >:(  Are you sure you got all of the emulsifiers in place? Hey, you never know. I would make mistakes like that.

What are these "emulsifiers" you speak of?  ??? :D ???
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2010, 06:40:09 PM »
Each carb has two emulsifiers.  The pilot jet has one as part of the jet.  It's the exit tube with the cross drilled holes.
The main jet sits on the other one (separate part) and it also has the Needle jet at the exit.  It's about 1/4 inch wide and an inch and a half long.  It is removed out the same hole in the carb body that the main jet sits within, and is usually knocked out with the slides removed for access.
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline jimkalfakis

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2010, 07:53:42 PM »
I would guesstimate that it would run pig rich with clogged or no emulsifier tube in the tube. Please tell me that you took them out and cleaned them and put them back in. These tubes we speak of are not provided in the rebuild kit.
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Offline JAG

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Re: 76 550K only hitting off of 1-3
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2010, 09:07:46 PM »
Everything that's supposed to be in the carbs are in there.

No jets are clogged.
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Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~
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