Topic: A Paint Job

[Duanob]

So if I could find myself a black pad and the swirl remover I could shine it up even more?

I will take your advice on the wax. Believe it or not it's the sun around here that is so hard on paint finishes and upholstery. We don't get it often but when we do it's pretty intense. I think we're closer to the sun this far north. Mold and moss aren't great for finishes either. I chose white to keep it from fading. And the 2 part clear to keep fuel from ruining it. Should be good enough? Not sure if wax does anything to prevent sun damage anyway.

[Toxic]

Thanks Kong highly appreciated the effort.

What sanding grades do you use on the colour coat to get any imperfections out. What grade  do you finish off with before starting to put down the clear?

Do you use the same 1000, 1500, 2000 that you use on the clear coat?

[Kong]

Toxic,

Your question could be interpreted two ways, and that always gives me a reason to launch into a long-winded answer that a common Ape could have spurt out in 10 words or less.  Thank you.  

My last sanding will be done with either 400p or 600p paper in just about every case.  Which one I chose will depend on the paint that will go over it.  For Pearls, flakes, or metallic paints the finer paper will be used because the pigments and flakes used in these paints will line up in sanding scratches and really look bad.  For most solid colors sanding to 400p will do.  The great exception to that rule is Silver, which is sometimes used as a base on which to shoot candy colors.

Now those answers might sound funny to you, possibly a little bit coarser that you might have immagined, but please keep this in mind.  If it doesn't have the word "primer" or "clear" in its name it won't be sanded at all - and even the word "primer" doesn't mean it will be sanded.  

I sand when I'm doing prep and I sand when I'm "cutting and buffing" (cutting means sanding), but after the final sealer coat of epoxy goes on top of the prep work no more sanding will be done until after all of the painting is done.  With hopefully rare exceptions there is no sanding in between color coats.

The exceptions are when something goes wrong and you have to back up and either remove a mistake, repair an accident, or if you find yourself way out of the recoat window and you think it best to back up or for some reason you have to stop the job with the intent of finishing it considerably later.  In that case intercoat clear (base-coat with no pigment) becomes your friend.  If you need to stop or back up you can shoot a coat or two or the intercoat clear on the piece and then walk away.  When its time to resume work on it you then just skuff the piece (red skuff pad) and get back to work just as if you had never left.  So you could count that as a sanding of sorts.

You know what needs to be discussed here?  Not process, even though I think an awful lot of people could use a simple recipe set of steps for a simple paint job, but maybe just post a copy of one of the paint manufacturer's Tech Sheets and explain what its telling people.  I should tell you, I re-read the tech sheets for the products I use almost every time I paint.

That make sense?

[Toxic]

That helps allot.

I have some of the typical "orange peel" in my color coat and I was going to sand it out with 1000 then 1500 before putting on my clear.  Then I was going to follow your directions for the "cut and polish".

thanks

[jneuf]

Wow...great info here...Thanks a lot for posting this! I'll be painting two tanks and two sets of side covers come spring time, so I'll be using this as a reference...

A lot of good teachers on this board!

[Kong]

That helps allot.

I have some of the typical "orange peel" in my color coat and I was going to sand it out with 1000 then 1500 before putting on my clear.  Then I was going to follow your directions for the "cut and polish".

thanks

Toxic,

You can get away with that with some base coat and with some you can't.  Most of them simply are not made to be sanded.  What happens with most base-coat/clear/coat systems is that once you begin there are relatively narrow time windows in which you need to shoot your next coat, or chance failure.  When you shoot the Epoxy I use you have 72 hours to either recoat it, or skuff it and reshoot it.  Once the base-coat starts going on you apply coats with relatively short dry times between coats and once the base is finished you only have hours in which to clear coat it.  Once the clear is on with UC-35 you've got about a day or maybe two if you plan to sand and flow-coat it without fear of adhesion issues.  The tech sheets spell all of this out for the painter.

All that time stuff matters of course, but in fact there is a good bit of latitude.  One of my favorite little writeups on on custom painting can be read at the Southern Polyurethanes (SPI) website.  They have a short article titled "The Perfect Paint Job".  It is really well written and you can not go wrong following their instructions (or using their products either).
http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfect%20paint.htm

[mlinder]

Fantastic work, Kong.

I want to make my own paint booth soon.

I'm relegated to aerosols at the moment. :/

Too much work for the quality of the final product.




It would take me years to reach your level of competence, but at least I could do 1 or 2 color paintjobs and have the quality be a bit better.

That's it, I'm building a paint booth this year.

Any chance we can see more of your stuff?

[Kong]

I have a few odd photos of other jobs, but very few before this past year thanks to the theft of the last PC I owned.  We lost the computer in a theft and years of digital photos went with it.  The bike photos were actually the least of our concerns.

That said most of the pictures I had were pretty boring, so you didn't miss much. 

Toxic, I meant to tell you, if you do decide to sand your base back down and reshoot it.  When you do next time add just a little bit more reducer and maybe up your air pressure at the handle just a couple of pounds, not too much, just a little.  Often when you get orange peel its a matter of not having enough atomization, and increasing the pressure just a little can clear that up.  Also, and this time of year I might not be giving you very good advice with this , but if you go to a bit slower reducer it might help.  Of course it is winter time so I know that can be a real problem.

I'm pretty lucky in that the gun I use mostly for base and candies really breaks the paint up and my clear coat gun is a real dream too.  The workhorse is the small touch up gun (Iwata LPH-80LV, 1.2mm) that is very well suited to motorcycle work.  It can shoot a pattern between about 4~6".  For clear (and pearls) I use an Iwata LPH-300LV, 1.4mm, that I just love. Then I use a couple of different air brushes but mine aren't the super fined detail guns, just Iwata Eclipses.  Those are great for finish work but the gun that gets the most paint shot through it by far is my primer gun, which is a Sharpe Finex (FX1000, 1.4mm), also a touch up gun.  I'm sort of hoping Santa sees fit to replace the Sharpe with an Iwata Gunsa.  Iwata guns are sort of like Heroin I guess, once you shoot up with one you're hooked.

[mlinder]

Ah, shame about the theft.

If I may, I might ask you some questions in a few months about equipment.

[Kong]

The house was broken into while we were down in the Carolina's fishing, they stole everything with a trigger or a plug, they even stole the food out of the freezer.  It was truly remarkable.

[gnarlycharlie4u]

sorry to hear about the theft. that's one of the worst things. people like that make me sick.

What do you recommend for painting the frame? Something durable like an epoxy?
I have 0 equipment and experience but I learn fast. What do you recommend equipment wise? I was looking into some HVLP turbine setups like the turbinaire 1235.
But I'm wondering if a siphon fed HVLP will be capable of spraying epoxy. I honestly know nothing and could really use some direction.

I'm looking at getting into painting motorcycles as I have 4 in various build stages lying around and my buddy has a 5th that will need painting.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[gnarlycharlie4u]

Also, what about powdercoating? I feel like that's a viable option but the hardest part would be obtaining an oven large enough for the frame. Would a heat gun suffice in lieu of that?

[Kong]

Well, the bike I'm building now will have a powder coated frame.  The tank and seat unit will be painted.  Powder coat is just so much more durable than paint.  It is more expensive though.  I'll be honest with you, I don't much care for preping frames. They are a real pain in the butt from my point of view.  If I had a sandblaster I might feel differently about it, but as it is now I'll just toss it in the back of the truck and go make it someone else's problem.

I don't know much about powder coating, but I'm certain you could not cure a frame with a heat gun.  I believe the bake the parts at something like 400 F. for an hour or more to melt and cure the powder.  The guy I have used has an oven big enough that they do race car frames in it; I'd guess it to be 20'x10', with maybe a 7 foot ceiling.  That said I know with some certainty (there is a guy in a neighboring town that has built himself one) that you can make an powder coating kiln from a kitchen oven for small parts.  I have little doubt that you could enlarge one to a size suitable for frames if you insulated it well.  Now if you'd want to do that for a single frame or even just two or three, might be a different question.

[gnarlycharlie4u]

Well, the bike I'm building now will have a powder coated frame.  The tank and seat unit will be painted.  Powder coat is just so much more durable than paint.  It is more expensive though.  I'll be honest with you, I don't much care for preping frames. They are a real pain in the butt from my point of view.  If I had a sandblaster I might feel differently about it, but as it is now I'll just toss it in the back of the truck and go make it someone else's problem.

I don't know much about powder coating, but I'm certain you could not cure a frame with a heat gun.  I believe the bake the parts at something like 400 F. for an hour or more to melt and cure the powder.  The guy I have used has an oven big enough that they do race car frames in it; I'd guess it to be 20'x10', with maybe a 7 foot ceiling.  That said I know with some certainty (there is a guy in a neighboring town that has built himself one) that you can make an powder coating kiln from a kitchen oven for small parts.  I have little doubt that you could enlarge one to a size suitable for frames if you insulated it well.  Now if you'd want to do that for a single frame or even just two or three, might be a different question.

Well I had an oven for small parts but my mom threw it out $%#$%!@

I was eventually going to do something like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tenkely/sets/72157610491602911/