Topic: NEW Dinosaur Class in OMRRA!

[simon#42]

if you change your mind let me know , as a great yvon duhamel fan ive always wanted to help a canadian rider !     say hello to bob for me

[bwaller]

Will do, and I've got some great DuHamel stories that go back to his early SkiDoo racing days.

Sorry Paul, off topic.

[mlinder]

Paul,

I picked up my bike for the class tonight..

Dun worry, it's not going to be built up much, your CB will be faster... this season....

[speedracer741]

Better get crackin on that GS! Expect a KZ750 powered KZ650 to be on the grid as well. Might not be ready for the beginning of the season but it should make it out. I have been working on next summers 2 engines for Poor Bastard Cycle Works CB160 race bikes (Scott Elder and Andrew Pignataro riding). We didn't think this new class would get voted in so we were completely unprepared which is embarrassing since it was me and Joe Weirs who came up with the proposal. I don't think even Joe will be ready in time. I guess similar proposals have been voted down in the past so we weren't expecting any different this time. Since I sponsor PBCW I have donated a KZ650 to the team but it was a parts bike I bought years ago so will need a lot of work and will have to have a stock engine since this winter is completely booked. We are hoping to find a good 750 engine and just throw it in there and hope for the best. The most important thing is to get bikes on the grid to get the class popular, worry about the speed parts later With more preparation I want to see lots of SOHC Hondas on the track!

[paulages]

Better get crackin on that GS! Expect a KZ750 powered KZ650 to be on the grid as well. Might not be ready for the beginning of the season but it should make it out. I have been working on next summers 2 engines for Poor Bastard Cycle Works CB160 race bikes (Scott Elder and Andrew Pignataro riding). We didn't think this new class would get voted in so we were completely unprepared which is embarrassing since it was me and Joe Weirs who came up with the proposal. I don't think even Joe will be ready in time. I guess similar proposals have been voted down in the past so we weren't expecting any different this time. Since I sponsor PBCW I have donated a KZ650 to the team but it was a parts bike I bought years ago so will need a lot of work and will have to have a stock engine since this winter is completely booked. We are hoping to find a good 750 engine and just throw it in there and hope for the best. The most important thing is to get bikes on the grid to get the class popular, worry about the speed parts later With more preparation I want to see lots of SOHC Hondas on the track!

Hey Chris,

Can we get some details on the class rules? I can't find any online, and it would be great to know what can and cannot run... two-stroke triples, for example? Frame modifications... period brakes, etc.?

[mlinder]

Chris, pretty sure your bike isn't allowed. Can't put a motor in that came from any bike built after '77. First kz750 was '80, I do believe. (unless, of course, you are talking about the KZ750 twin.)

Interesting that it passed, yes, considering I put forth a similar idea a scant year earlier and it was summarily shot down by everyone, including, I believe, Joe.

I guess you have to be Joe or similar to get stuff going in OMRRA.

Paul, ima try to go see Maurice this weekend, I'll see if he has the rules.

Or I guess I could go see if someone at the omrra forums can send it to me.

[mlinder]

Paul, I thought this was just an outline for the future rules, but apparently, it's the whole thing.

Section 1...Add Paragraph C) as follows:
C) Open Dinosaur: Street motorcycles not exceeding model year 1977. Open
displacement. Grand Prix motorcycles are not allowed.
Section 2...Add subsection D) as follows:
D) Open Dinosaur
Street based motorcycles having unlimited displacement, up to and including model year
1977. Racing only or Grand Prix motorcycles are not allowed. Examples of eligible models
include
CB550
Ducati 900SS
KZ900, KZ1000
GT380
GS750, GS1000
RD350, RD400
Purpose built race motorcycles such as Yamaha's TZ series are not allowed. Other makes
and models with similar performance and from the similar time period may be allowed at
the discretion of OMRRA officials.
Section 3... Add section D as follows:
D) Open Dinosaur:
1)All modifications are permitted providing they conform to the regulations and vintage
intent and are consistent with safety.
2)Major engine updating to non-period specifications in not permitted.
3)Forks must be of a type and model used within the period.
4)Brakes must be of a make and type manufactured in the period. Disc brakes are
permitted.
5)Tires must be treaded. No slick tires or modified racing slicks are allowed.
6)Tanks, seats, and fairings shall be of a racing style or pattern in use during the period.
7)Carburetors are without size restrictions but must be of a type and model in use during
the period.
8)Ignition systems are without restriction.
9)Gearboxes, transmissions, and final drive shall be of type and model used in the period
and must retain the original external appearance. Belt drives, if used, must be totally
concealed from view."

[paulages]

Paul, I thought this was just an outline for the future rules, but apparently, it's the whole thing.

Section 1...Add Paragraph C) as follows:
C) Open Dinosaur: Street motorcycles not exceeding model year 1977. Open
displacement. Grand Prix motorcycles are not allowed.
Section 2...Add subsection D) as follows:
D) Open Dinosaur
Street based motorcycles having unlimited displacement, up to and including model year
1977. Racing only or Grand Prix motorcycles are not allowed. Examples of eligible models
include
CB550
Ducati 900SS
KZ900, KZ1000
GT380
GS750, GS1000
RD350, RD400
Purpose built race motorcycles such as Yamaha's TZ series are not allowed. Other makes
and models with similar performance and from the similar time period may be allowed at
the discretion of OMRRA officials.
Section 3... Add section D as follows:
D) Open Dinosaur:
1)All modifications are permitted providing they conform to the regulations and vintage
intent and are consistent with safety.
2)Major engine updating to non-period specifications in not permitted.
3)Forks must be of a type and model used within the period.
4)Brakes must be of a make and type manufactured in the period. Disc brakes are
permitted.
5)Tires must be treaded. No slick tires or modified racing slicks are allowed.
6)Tanks, seats, and fairings shall be of a racing style or pattern in use during the period.
7)Carburetors are without size restrictions but must be of a type and model in use during
the period.
8)Ignition systems are without restriction.
9)Gearboxes, transmissions, and final drive shall be of type and model used in the period
and must retain the original external appearance. Belt drives, if used, must be totally
concealed from view."

This seems about exactly what I thought it would be... basically a year-extension of OV. Do you know if Kawa triples are allowed? An H1 or H2 in an upgraded or period aftermarket frame would be killer if allowed...

[mlinder]

Paul, the Kawas fit the class no problem.

However, these rules don't imply the same things that the other classes do..  i.e. overbore limit, degree to which the frame and swingarm can be modified, etc..

From OV/5V/3V
a) Engine modifications must not substantially alter the external appearance of
the engine.

e) Frames: Must be consistent with the period. Swingarms may be strengthened
by one or both of the following methods only:
_ the addition of gussets
_ the addition of other material directly to the swingarm so as to not
increase its overall height or profile beyond 1/2" greater than the
original stock swingarm.
_ No “superstructures” may be added as part of any strengthening.
The swingarm can be 1 x 2 rectangular steel tubing.
f) Suspension: Remote or external reservoir shocks and/or forks are not
permitted.
g) Major engine updating to non-period specification is not permitted.



3) All classes may substitute modern treaded racing tires with rims to suit. Maximum
wheel rim width is WM5 (2.75-3.00), minimum rim diameter is 18 inches, except
where originally-fitted with smaller diameter wheels.
4) Cylinder(s) overbore limit is 0.060 inches.


They havent said whether these rules apply to Dinosaur or not.

[mlinder]

I asked specific questions on the forums. Will let you know what they say, Paul.

[bwaller]

1.5mm overbore limit.

By the questions about K triples, doesn't sound like you were planning on racing the 550 Paul?

[mlinder]

1.5mm overbore limit.

By the questions about K triples, doesn't sound like you were planning on racing the 550 Paul?

That's on OV/3V/5V.

It does not implicitly state that for the new Dino class, bwaller.

[bwaller]

Gotcha

[simon#42]

glad the gs1000 is in even though it wasn't available until 1978 , as this is the most modern bike allowed i recon its the one to use , another alternative would be to build a h2r or tr750 replica , or would these then be classed as gp bikes?

[speedracer741]

In regards to the KZ750, I believe it was introduced in late '77 as the '78 model. It is basically a bored out KZ650 engine. We will be asking the powers that be before putting any work into getting a 750 engine. The "same as/similar technology" clause is what we hope will allow us to run it. Worst case scenario is we just run the 650 engine for now. No time to do up a 650/750 hybrid. Depending on what shows up it may not even be a contender but at least there will be another bike out there. Next winter I will build something fast as we will have the time. Spent all day today pressing the cranks for the CB160s, now with CB200 rods on them.

[turboguzzi]

In regards to the KZ750, I believe it was introduced in late '77 as the '78 model. It is basically a bored out KZ650 engine. We will be asking the powers that be before putting any work into getting a 750 engine. The "same as/similar technology" clause is what we hope will allow us to run it. Worst case scenario is we just run the 650 engine for now. No time to do up a 650/750 hybrid. Depending on what shows up it may not even be a contender but at least there will be another bike out there. Next winter I will build something fast as we will have the time. Spent all day today pressing the cranks for the CB160s, now with CB200 rods on them.

shouldnt be a problem to build a KZ650/810 without any impact on externals, just drop into the 650 block 750 sleeves bored to 69mm, add stock GPZ cams and your set... easy 85 rwhp. working now on a gpz750/810 and the parts interchangeability is pretty amazing. The gpz550 6 speed cluster is a drop in

TG
 

[speedracer741]

Yeah the 6 speed fitment sure is nice! Not many engines you can do that with so easily. I wanted to go with the 750 head as well since they have larger valves but I believe the 650CSR model also has the bigger valves.

[mlinder]

glad the gs1000 is in even though it wasn't available until 1978 , as this is the most modern bike allowed i recon its the one to use , another alternative would be to build a h2r or tr750 replica , or would these then be classed as gp bikes?

http://www.suzukicycles.org/GS-series/GS1000.shtml

[mlinder]

In regards to the KZ750, I believe it was introduced in late '77 as the '78 model. It is basically a bored out KZ650 engine. We will be asking the powers that be before putting any work into getting a 750 engine. The "same as/similar technology" clause is what we hope will allow us to run it. Worst case scenario is we just run the 650 engine for now. No time to do up a 650/750 hybrid. Depending on what shows up it may not even be a contender but at least there will be another bike out there. Next winter I will build something fast as we will have the time. Spent all day today pressing the cranks for the CB160s, now with CB200 rods on them.

Don't think so. I could be wrong, but pretty sure first year was 80.

Some differences on the bottom end. Also combustion chamber differences.

Anything based on the KZ 650 will be a contender, they handle so well.

[speedracer741]

Yes they are a very good chassis, probably the best of the 1970's era fours. Yep looks like you're right, it's too new. Well then looks like we are keeping it 650 based and it won't get big until the 2012 season. Joe said because of the similarities it probably wouldn't be a big issue but I don't want to take any chances, we are there to have fun

[paulages]

1.5mm overbore limit.

By the questions about K triples, doesn't sound like you were planning on racing the 550 Paul?

I am, Brent. I was just curious about the triples, as that could be a fun bike to build with a foale design chassis (or similar "period frame"), and definitely something to contend with should anyone run one with a frame that can tame the power. Major potential for a really light, powerful bike, IMO.

[speedracer741]

Paul, there is a GT750 on Craigslist. That would be an interesting triple to see out there!

[simon#42]

glad the gs1000 is in even though it wasn't available until 1978 , as this is the most modern bike allowed i recon its the one to use , another alternative would be to build a h2r or tr750 replica , or would these then be classed as gp bikes?

http://www.suzukicycles.org/GS-series/GS1000.shtml

the gs1000 was first showed at paris in autumn 1977 , no one got them till 78
this is the problem with rules based on cut off dates , you will find that people will constantly try to prove that their bike is eligible even though its obviously not . with the forgotten era club in england we  allowed all two valve engines up to 78 , not perfect but allows most of the  bikes in [ the honda 900 was not allowed ] . i think not having a maximum capacity is a mistake as well , look at the australian classic racing scene , bikes of over 1500cc are not unheard of , you can all go an build as many light good handling bikes as you want ,but if someone turns up with a 1400cc gs1000 your bolloxed .

[turboguzzi]

glad the gs1000 is in even though it wasn't available until 1978 , as this is the most modern bike allowed i recon its the one to use , another alternative would be to build a h2r or tr750 replica , or would these then be classed as gp bikes?

http://www.suzukicycles.org/GS-series/GS1000.shtml

the gs1000 was first showed at paris in autumn 1977 , no one got them till 78
this is the problem with rules based on cut off dates , you will find that people will constantly try to prove that their bike is eligible even though its obviously not . with the forgotten era club in england we  allowed all two valve engines up to 78 , not perfect but allows most of the  bikes in [ the honda 900 was not allowed ] . i think not having a maximum capacity is a mistake as well , look at the australian classic racing scene , bikes of over 1500cc are not unheard of , you can all go an build as many light good handling bikes as you want ,but if someone turns up with a 1400cc gs1000 your bolloxed .

and that's without mentioning those new XR69 replicas.....

In regards to the KZ750, I believe it was introduced in late '77 as the '78 model. It is basically a bored out KZ650 engine. We will be asking the powers that be before putting any work into getting a 750 engine. The "same as/similar technology" clause is what we hope will allow us to run it. Worst case scenario is we just run the 650 engine for now. No time to do up a 650/750 hybrid. Depending on what shows up it may not even be a contender but at least there will be another bike out there. Next winter I will build something fast as we will have the time. Spent all day today pressing the cranks for the CB160s, now with CB200 rods on them.

Don't think so. I could be wrong, but pretty sure first year was 80.

Some differences on the bottom end. Also combustion chamber differences.

Anything based on the KZ 650 will be a contender, they handle so well.

just in case you need a confirmation on the KZ650's timeline,

http://www.kz650.info/kz650files/adobe/KZ650_History.pdf

 

[mlinder]

No one is questoning the 650's elegibility. It's the KZ750 engine that doesn't fly.