Topic: Will a CB350 front (drum) hub fit a 76 CB400F?

[obrut]

There is a drum brake front hub on my local ebay advertised as:

"Honda 1971 CB350 CB250 SL350 Front wheel hub complete with brakes and axle."

1. Does anyone know if this would this fit my CB400F front forks?

2. If yes, could it be laced into my existing front rim?

[csc]

Interesting question, after a cross reference check on bike bandits site its leads to some more questions..  Its shows the 71 sl350 uses the same axle as the 76 400f  but the 71 cb 350 uses a differant axle and their site didnt list the 71 cb250..   Futher info from the seller may be needed as to the Model bike it is actually is from..  Spokes will be differant for a drum hub than a dics hub..

[MoMo]

Out of curiousity, why would you want to put a drum brake on the 400f?..If possible you would also probably have to change the forks so that the stay bar would have a place to attach to...Larry

[csc]

Also will require a differant brake lever perch for the brake cable..

[Kevin400F]

Do it.

[obrut]

Out of curiousity, why would you want to put a drum brake on the 400f?..If possible you would also probably have to change the forks so that the stay bar would have a place to attach to...Larry

Hmm, didn't think about the stay bar.  Main reason for changing is cosmetic - simplifiying the look (including ditching the m/c).  Also, the current disc setup (even after rebuilding, new pads etc) sucks.  Lastly, the bike isn't going to see the track.

[Kevin400F]

The stay bar bolts to the same hole as the caliper bracket.

[camelman]

You could stick with your current setup (much lighter rotating mass), and still clean up the handlebars by mounting a remote, cable-actuated master cylinder.

http://www.fabkevin.com/Remote%20Master.htm

Camelman

[Kong]

Out of curiousity, why would you want to put a drum brake on the 400f?..If possible you would also probably have to change the forks so that the stay bar would have a place to attach to...Larry

Hmm, didn't think about the stay bar.  Main reason for changing is cosmetic - simplifiying the look (including ditching the m/c).  Also, the current disc setup (even after rebuilding, new pads etc) sucks.  Lastly, the bike isn't going to see the track.

If you think the disk brake sucks wait until you try to bring it down five times hard with that drum brake. 

[Duanob]

Sounds like a huge step backwards.

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

You could stick with your current setup (much lighter rotating mass), and still clean up the handlebars by mounting a remote, cable-actuated master cylinder.

http://www.fabkevin.com/Remote%20Master.htm

Camelman

I am going to convert to a set up like this someday.

[Bodi]

I've ridden for 40+ years. I can't remember any time I had to "bring it down hard" five times in a row - except when riding silly on bendy roads and, yes, with drum brakes I had to adapt my riding to the brakes' state. This is hardly a life or death matter. True panic stops with a crash imminent should the brakes not be as usual are very rare. Every rider has to adjust the braking point relative to the bike's brakes and tires and the road condition.
The double leading shoe brakes on many midweight pre-disk bikes were very effective and could induce tire howl on the front. Frame geometry, weight distribution, and tire adhesion were incapable of stoppies so a howling or skidding (not good!) front tire on dry pavement meant any more braking power was unusable (except in reserve for when the brakes heated up).
Five hard stops from speed with drum brakes left one with drastically reduced brake power, true.
Have you tried it with stock 1970's Honda disk brakes? Five hard stops from speed leaves you with about the same feel as from 60's era DLS drums. The stainless rotor and whatever pad they used do not work well when hot.
Don't confuse the ancient stuff on our bikes with modern braking systems. SOHC4 disks and DLS drums come out about the same - pathetic - compared to current equipment.
The CB350 had a SLS drum on front, a bit over half as effective as a DLS unit. I would try to find a 305 or 450 DLS brake for use on a 400F. The 305 had 36 spokes like the 400, the 450 used 40 spokes IIRC. You will need a new front rim drilled for the drum hub diameter, lacing the original front rim to a drum hub will put unsafe stress on the spokes at the rim. The torque arm attachment should be no problem, there are a bunch of holes for the caliper mount. You may have to fabricate a new arm but that's just a steel bar with two holes.

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

I've ridden for 40+ years. I can't remember any time I had to "bring it down hard" five times in a row - except when riding silly on bendy roads and, yes, with drum brakes I had to adapt my riding to the brakes' state. This is hardly a life or death matter. True panic stops with a crash imminent should the brakes not be as usual are very rare. Every rider has to adjust the braking point relative to the bike's brakes and tires and the road condition.
The double leading shoe brakes on many midweight pre-disk bikes were very effective and could induce tire howl on the front. Frame geometry, weight distribution, and tire adhesion were incapable of stoppies so a howling or skidding (not good!) front tire on dry pavement meant any more braking power was unusable (except in reserve for when the brakes heated up).
Five hard stops from speed with drum brakes left one with drastically reduced brake power, true.
Have you tried it with stock 1970's Honda disk brakes? Five hard stops from speed leaves you with about the same feel as from 60's era DLS drums. The stainless rotor and whatever pad they used do not work well when hot.
Don't confuse the ancient stuff on our bikes with modern braking systems. SOHC4 disks and DLS drums come out about the same - pathetic - compared to current equipment.
The CB350 had a SLS drum on front, a bit over half as effective as a DLS unit. I would try to find a 305 or 450 DLS brake for use on a 400F. The 305 had 36 spokes like the 400, the 450 used 40 spokes IIRC. You will need a new front rim drilled for the drum hub diameter, lacing the original front rim to a drum hub will put unsafe stress on the spokes at the rim. The torque arm attachment should be no problem, there are a bunch of holes for the caliper mount. You may have to fabricate a new arm but that's just a steel bar with two holes.

well said

[Slams77]

You could stick with your current setup (much lighter rotating mass), and still clean up the handlebars by mounting a remote, cable-actuated master cylinder.

http://www.fabkevin.com/Remote%20Master.htm

Camelman

Interesting.  Would this work with a 350/400 stock caliper?

[faux fiddy]

Out of curiousity, why would you want to put a drum brake on the 400f?..If possible you would also probably have to change the forks so that the stay bar would have a place to attach to...Larry

You might have to convert to disc brake to run a 350f or 400f in some of the vintage classes,too.

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

You could stick with your current setup (much lighter rotating mass), and still clean up the handlebars by mounting a remote, cable-actuated master cylinder.

http://www.fabkevin.com/Remote%20Master.htm

Camelman

Interesting.  Would this work with a 350/400 stock caliper?

I'm thinking yes, as long as it's designed to work with a single disk and you have a single disk/stock set up.

[Kong]

I've ridden for 40+ years. I can't remember any time I had to "bring it down hard" five times in a row - except when riding silly on bendy roads and, yes, with drum brakes I had to adapt my riding to the brakes' state. This is hardly a life or death matter. True panic stops with a crash imminent should the brakes not be as usual are very rare. Every rider has to adjust the braking point relative to the bike's brakes and tires and the road condition.
The double leading shoe brakes on many midweight pre-disk bikes were very effective and could induce tire howl on the front. Frame geometry, weight distribution, and tire adhesion were incapable of stoppies so a howling or skidding (not good!) front tire on dry pavement meant any more braking power was unusable (except in reserve for when the brakes heated up).
Five hard stops from speed with drum brakes left one with drastically reduced brake power, true.
Have you tried it with stock 1970's Honda disk brakes? Five hard stops from speed leaves you with about the same feel as from 60's era DLS drums. The stainless rotor and whatever pad they used do not work well when hot.
Don't confuse the ancient stuff on our bikes with modern braking systems. SOHC4 disks and DLS drums come out about the same - pathetic - compared to current equipment.
The CB350 had a SLS drum on front, a bit over half as effective as a DLS unit. I would try to find a 305 or 450 DLS brake for use on a 400F. The 305 had 36 spokes like the 400, the 450 used 40 spokes IIRC. You will need a new front rim drilled for the drum hub diameter, lacing the original front rim to a drum hub will put unsafe stress on the spokes at the rim. The torque arm attachment should be no problem, there are a bunch of holes for the caliper mount. You may have to fabricate a new arm but that's just a steel bar with two holes.

Well, I think you are a fool to do it, but its your choice.  I see you're from up in a place where all the ground is flat, so all you know about braking is when some idiot pulls out in front of you.  If you lived in a place with topography like I do you could find your self having to "bring it down hard" five times before you got to the bottom of a single hill, and have absolutely no brakes what so ever left when you got to the next hill.  It is not by mistake that drum brakes disappeared from even street motorcycles decades ago - but you're sure welcome to bring them back on your ride.  After all, its appearances that count - right?

[camelman]

You could stick with your current setup (much lighter rotating mass), and still clean up the handlebars by mounting a remote, cable-actuated master cylinder.

http://www.fabkevin.com/Remote%20Master.htm

Camelman

Interesting.  Would this work with a 350/400 stock caliper?

I'm thinking yes, as long as it's designed to work with a single disk and you have a single disk/stock set up.

I saw a CB built up with one of these.  I didn't get to ask how the braking was, but the bike didn't look like it had run into anything.  I'm actually considering it for a future build myself.

I actually had an early 80s Yamaha Seca that had this setup.  It came stock from the factory like that.  Dual front discs and a remote, cable-actuated master.  It was a little vague feeling, but it worked fine.

Camelman