Topic: Heating on or off?

[Retro Rocket]

we have to sit around a giant ice block to keep cool,throw some more ice cubes on will ya retro

Can't Dave, the beer will get warm..... Get your priorities right mate.....

Mick

[brooze72]

Don't turn it off, it requires more energy to get back to a comfort level than if you just turn it down 8 degrees or so.
I recomend turning it down to 60-62 F.

How low does the temp go when you turn it off and what temp do you set it at when you are home?

This is the right answer, we men of the Great White North have spoken!  However I understand you have more snow over in Jolly Old than here in the colonies, so.. as Billy Connoly says "The world is all f....d up!"

[Raef]

I have 4 of them, all unusable.    All of them need to be inspected and repaired. I don't think they are sized for wood burning. Coal was king when this house was built and I don't think wood can be burned in them. They're beautiful though! 

If you want to get them working let me know I'll come down , take a look. as mentioned at the bar, it take a lot of calories it maintain so I'll work for food.

Mark

[rhos1355]

Temperatures have been all over the place since I last posted. It was pretty mild over the weekend (4°C/39°F) and this morning it was bloody cold (-6°C/21°F). So what I've decided to do is leave the boiler on minimum all night and switching it off during the day. Because the 2 foot thick walls are now warmed up, the place is still bearable when I get back 10-11 hours later. All I need is to turn up the heat to medium and within a couple of hours it's quite comfortable in there.

[Stev-o]

I have 4 of them, all unusable.    All of them need to be inspected and repaired. I don't think they are sized for wood burning. Coal was king when this house was built and I don't think wood can be burned in them. They're beautiful though! 

If you want to get them working let me know I'll come down , take a look. as mentioned at the bar, it take a lot of calories it maintain so I'll work for food.

Mark

Schm - you need to take advantage of this generous offer!

[sangyo soichiro]

Get yourself a big woman! Like 300 to 400lbs.
She will keep the house warm in the winter, and will give you shade in the summer.

Only problem with that is you have to roll them in flour to find the wet spot.....

Mick

I about busted a gut when I read this.   



For what it's worth, I'm going to use the logical fallacy of appealing to my own authority (that is, my doctorate in physics, as opposed to actually trying to make an argument).    
I'm also the tightest-ass person you'll ever meet.  I can find a million ways to save money and am pretty damn good at it.


FWIW...
My heat never goes above 58 degrees in the winter (and I live in cold Michigan).  I wear warm clothes instead.  When I leave the house, I turn the heat down just above the lowest setting.  Yes, I live alone.   

Anyway, that's what I do.  But it all depends on what your goals are.  This saves me boocoo dollah, and does no harm to my house. 

This also allows me to unplug my refrigerator during the day.   

[Raef]

Get yourself a big woman! Like 300 to 400lbs.
She will keep the house warm in the winter, and will give you shade in the summer.

Only problem with that is you have to roll them in flour to find the wet spot.....

Mick

I about busted a gut when I read this.   



For what it's worth, I'm going to use the logical fallacy of appealing to my own authority (that is, my doctorate in physics, as opposed to actually trying to make an argument).    
I'm also the tightest-ass person you'll ever meet.  I can find a million ways to save money and am pretty damn good at it.


FWIW...
My heat never goes above 58 degrees in the winter (and I live in cold Michigan).  I wear warm clothes instead.  When I leave the house, I turn the heat down just above the lowest setting.  Yes, I live alone.   

Anyway, that's what I do.  But it all depends on what your goals are.  This saves me boocoo dollah, and does no harm to my house. 

This also allows me to unplug my refrigerator during the day.   

I might argue the part where it does no harm to the house, but  the freeze thaw cycle is the killer and it may never get warm enough to thaw.

i also might wonder how much that might shorten the life of the compressor in the frig, but hey I just a bricklayer and I have learned not to argue with the PHD's.

at least not at work

[Bodi]

There are two primary heat loss paths from a structure, air leakage and conduction.There's also radiation but that's pretty trivial in a house.
Air leakage is easiest to fix, caulking and weatherstrip are the main cures.
Conduction is complicated. Heat loss through a partition (floor, wall, ceiling) is proportional to temperature differential across the partition and to insulation value (the R value of the partition). Improving insulation reduces the rate of conduction lowering the amount of energy needed to maintain indoor temperature.
Regardless of R value, conduction heat loss is proportional to the temperature difference. Lowering the inside temperature reduces the heat transmission which reduces the energy required to keep the inside warm. You reduce conduction heat loss and use less energy by lowering the thermostat.
Now to the bollocks theory that you should leave the heat on since it costs more to reheat your house. When you turn the thermostat down the heater shuts off and the temperature slowly drops to where you set the thermostat whereupon the heater starts again and maintains the lower temperature... or to outside ambient temperature if you turn the heater completely off. During this time the stored energy in the structure and furnishings is keeping the house warm. When you turn the heat back up/on, the heater will run for a while to warm the air inside up to the thermostat setpoint but that's not all you need to heat: the structure and furnishings need to be warmed up again too, repaying the energy they used up just after you turned the heat down. The actual amount of energy used to reheat the stuff is identical to what was expended keeping the place warm when the furnace was shut off. The simple laws of thermodynamics give a clear answer: you reduce total energy use by lowering the thermostat when you don't need the house warm.
Unfortunately this can be uncomfortable. Your body feels cold when surrounded by cold objects since you are radiating energy to them. When you get home and turn up the heat you will feel cold long after the air temperature is up to normal, while the structure and furnishings are heating up. That's the real reason to not turn the temperature down (and probably why the ludicrous idea that it doesn't actually save money was invented).
With the boiler system described, you only have a "throttle" not a thermostat. You set the throttle to adjust the energy sent into the house. This must equal the energy used (pesky thermodynamics again) via radiation, conduction, and air leakage. At some temperature energy in will equal energy out, and the house will settle at that temperature, although it will be sensitive to outside temperature changes and winds if your structure is drafty. Other heating systems with a thermostat have energy outputs much higher than what's required to maintain temperature and cycle the heater on and off to maintain it. The house will heat up from cold fairly fast. Your system with a "heat throttle" may not have a huge reserve of energy production above what's required to maintain temperature and take a lot longer to warm up from cold. That may dictate just how low you turn it down or require a large stock of sweaters and scotch (and maybe a warm friendly body...) to keep you cozy while the place warms up.

[dave500]

so let me get this right,you run out of heat?and you have to use power to keep warm?here,have some of mine,if you cant see an ice block on my head its because its melted away!we have about 78% humidity right now,not good out door painting weather
 

[Damfino]

For God's sake man! Put a shirt on! Who do you think you are, Industrial Cafe?

[rhos1355]

Bondi, thanks for your very interesting and readable post. But, if I understand you correctly, you are assuming that the optimal method is to reduce the thermostat rather than switching the boiler off. I can see your point in claiming that it would be more economical than keeping the heating on all day at normal temperautre. And I agree that the objects inside the house would "lend" some energy to the interior to slow the drop in intemperature. Furthermore, I understand that it would take longer that the time that I am away from the house (10 hours) to reach total interior/exterior temperature equality. So by the time I return to switch the boiler back on, there would be still a small amount of residual heat in the house.
But what if the external temperature were extreme, say -6 to -10 degrees C (21 to 14 F). I would imagine that interior/exterior equality would be reached a lot quicker than in milder exterior temperatures, and to re-heat the interior as well as re-pay all the object all the energy would take more energy rather than leaving the thermostat at bearable setting.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Heat off, heat is for pansy frogs. 

[Retro Rocket]

For God's sake man! Put a shirt on! Who do you think you are, Industrial Cafe?

Before the rain here yesterday you could cut the humidity with a knife, on the bayside our humidity was in the 90'sand 32 celcius {90 F}.......

Mick

[demon78]

At the moment Mick my humidity is 87% and temp is 2c and they are saying snow squalls all day and night with a possibility for 25 + cm accumulation, be thankful, very, very, thankful.
Bill the demon.

[Don R]

House 70F, Hot flashes have subsided so WE are cold, turn the heat up!
Shop 40F till I go out there then 60F, wifey washed her car and the doors froze so both garages are 40F tonight. The daily driver garage is attached to the house on one side and my shop on one side so it stays above freezing anyway.

[Retro Rocket]

At the moment Mick my humidity is 87% and temp is 2c and they are saying snow squalls all day and night with a possibility for 25 + cm accumulation, be thankful, very, very, thankful.
Bill the demon.

Bill, what does the high humidity do to the cold.? Over here {in Queensland} we have either dry heat or humid heat and the dry is a lot more bearable, the humidity makes you sweat your butt off....

Mick

[demon78]

Well Mick, it seems to intensify the cold, to cut through to the bone, if it's dry, 50-60 % humidity, it's yes cool but not too bad, now if you start getting down to -40 then it's dammed cold, no matter what the guys from the prairies claim that it's a dry cold so it doesn't feel that bad, Horse #$%*, I was on a flight as crew, from Comox on the west coast to Greenwood on the east coast in Dec and we stopped at station Winipeg in the middle to refuel (which was me) I had on Long johns, wool uniform, two pair of wools socks, two pairs of cloves wool and leather, a flying suit, sweater, and a parka and I'm up on the wings refueling the A/C and I figured that i was going to perish, freeze solid, #$%* was it cold. I think it was minus 30 so much for dry cold. If you came from Oz into a normal prairie winter you'd think you'd died and gone to the tier in hell that was the cold one. Hope that explains.
Bill the demon.

[Bob Wessner]

Most sources suggest the ideal humidity for humans is 30%-50%, some say 40%-60%. Either way, during bitter cold winter months, maintaining indoor humidity at the higher ends is not recommended. You do feel warmer with higher humidity as apposed to lower (less evaporation of moisture from your skin), but there are limits so as not to cause structural damage from condensation. During our coldest month, January, our indoor humidity might be set as low as 35% and no more (we have a furnace humidifier). Above that, you start getting some severe condensation on windows when the temps are down around 0F-10F. If it condensing out on any surfaces, you're losing the benefits anyway and if you can see it happening on windows, it's also happening inside walls etc.

[Retro Rocket]

Thank you Bill and Bob...it seems either way that high humidity is a problem. We have had {or are having} one of our wettest years on record at the moment so we will have humidity over 80% all summer.....

Mick

[dave500]

and it makes a million insects hatch,flying biting ones.

[74cb750]

Hasn't been above 32F here for weeks, but I'm still waiting for the Real cold to hit.

Just filled up my oil tank, 100 gallons @$3.00 a gallon which should last me until
April at least. I'm luckly I have a 35 year old  woodstove that keeps the home warm.
I only use the oil heat when away from home as a backup.

The house was badly built with 2 x 4's 24 inch on center so I am sure I use
much more wood than I should.

peace,
michel