Topic: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts

[neil10]

Both great bikes

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Have ridden stock versions of both extensively, as well as a few customs.  The 900 can't be beat for raw power and scary handling.  The CB is much more of a gentleman's motorcycle and a better all around ride.  If you get into valve adjustment work, you will want to kiss your Honda compared to the Kaw shimming.

[Kevin400F]

The Kawasaki was obviously a great bike, but only because the Honda beat it to market and sent the Kawasali engineers back to the drawing board to come up with something bigger and better than the Honda CB750.  Below is a pic of the Kawasaki as it "would have been", were it not for Honda's stunning debut at the 1968 Tokyo Motor Show.

[turboguzzi]

A bit of an apples and oranges thing....at least in stock form

As for racing, with all due respect to the 750's early victories (albeit in heavily modified CR guise), when superbike racing kicked off in the states in 76', Honda wasnt even in ballpark until the 79' sixteen valve 750 (bored to 1025) came along.

It was a suzuki/kawasaki walk in the park till then, and eventually, only the 83' watercooled V4 brought honda an AMA crown.

Interestingly enough, suzuki's early superbike racers were bored out 750's and they went quite well. honda seemingly didnt believe in the sohc 750 potential against the newer dohc's even as a big bore.

TG

[Kong]

I have owned both.  I have no good memories of the Kaw except that it was fast and had terrible handling; it was the only motorcycle I have ever sold that I was very glad to get rid of.  Of course my memory of it includes a street accident within 10 minutes of buying the damnedable thing that cost me 6 broken bones and considerable loss of blood.

[MRieck]

 One of my customers has a 73 Z1. It isn't the power monster every magazine described though again it was a long time ago and 60 HP was a big deal"in the day". Nowadays a well built 836 Honda can outperform an old "Cobra." My busa has about 190 to the rear wheel. That rocks.

[bwaller]

In 73 on my 810 I was the guy to beat (in my mind at least) until a buddy bought a Z1. At the drag strip he kicked my ass, but I matched him in top end if I had enough room to reel him in.  It took a longggg stretch.

I said I hated the thing then but secretly thought they were a good looking bike too. 

[754]

 As far as black motored bikes, The first Z-1s looked far better than the 77/78 Honda 750 F.
 A lot of the Kawis around here smoked , from guides I believe.
 
 The guy I got my first Webers from, I watched him smoke aZ-1 in the first 150 feet (on his 736cc with Webers), The Z-owner was not amused.

 On that day, (I was about 15), I learned a bit about gearing for holeshots.. when I bought the carbs later, I got the 17/54 sprockets too..

 Always thoght the rootbeer Zs were cool..

 Mike if you got 190 rwhp, you should try Bonneville, for an all new learning curve..

[Stev-o]

There were fewer Z-1's made and they have become very collectable and expensive. Parts are not as readily available as for the CB750.
I hope to own a Z-1.......one day.

[neil10]

Z! cool loook
cb chunky look

[SOHC Digger]

My dad had a Z1 900 Chopper along with two KZ1000's (see My Gallery) and I always thought those engines looked potent and ready to race.  When I came into bike building, I had aspirations to go the same route, but cost drove me away quickly and I fell in love with the CB750's.  For the money most people want for the Z1 engines, you can make a pretty hot SOHC; and as Stev-o said, parts are not nearly as plentiful as for the SOHC.

... That being said, I still think they are one of the sexiest production bikes ever.

[ekpent]

One of my riding buddies has a 74 900 with I think a 1050 or 1015 kit in it. He has had it for 33 years now and I am tired of seeing that tailight over many years thats for sure     My Son and him in the pic.

[donpark1086]

Kong:

Have you told the full story of KZ900 misfortune 10 minutes into ownership?  What happened?

[72 yellow]

I have a dark story involving a z1.  A friend of my old boss who used to visit our shop every now and then bought a new z1.  He had the dealership deliver the bike to his home.  He was not a experienced rider.  The driver unloaded the bike and gave him a 30 second instruction on operating the bike.  The new owner said he would drive up the driveway and into his garage.  He started the bike and attempted to move up the drive.  He ended up pulling a wheelstand and losing control.  He struck the corner of his house and suffered massive head injuries.  He died on the way to the hospital.  His total ride lasted only 30 feet.  Not the bikes fault.  I often wonder why people with no riding experience will buy a powerful machine with a steep and unforgiving learning curve.

[MoMo]

another dark Kawasaki story  similar to that:  back in the 80's a local boxer by the name of James Shuler had a fight with Thomas Hearns and got a fairly large purse even though he was badly beaten.  He came to the dealership where I worked and wanted the biggest Kaw available, we would not sell because he had little to no experience.  He went to another dealership who gladly sold him what he wanted. I can't remember if it was that night or several nights later but he was killed racing his bike without the skills to stop it.  He hit a tractor trailer.  Sad day...Larry

[jakecb420]

i got a z1 story as well. my dad bought one new, i think in 75. he said that a buddy let him ride his, and he thought it was a lot faster and more reliable than his 48 panhead chopper that was a apparently set up for the drag strip. my dad is a humble guy for the most part except when it comes to talking about some of his bike adventures. a good friend of mine and member on the forum, Head, can back up his stories and used to ride a souped up 750 with him. anyway, my dad had logged about 85,000  miles on that bike in two and half years. to me that is impressive. i cant imagine that much fun.  he said that the bike never broke down on him. only had to change a lot of tires and chains and sprockets.  he had to sell his bike to pay for the hospital bills when my older brother was born.  15 years later about, he acquired his 70 honda cb750. he says that he never really liked hondas, but a good deal for the 750 came along. i think he did a brake job on a guys car for it or something. thats my story about a z1.

hope i get to own or even ride one someday. they sound like a fun ride.

[Retro Rocket]

I have owned both and prefer the Honda, i found the Honda easier to set up and with a well kitted bike {810, 836, 850, 900} i could blow the 900's away, especially in the twisties....Those old 900's used to walk around corners especially high speed sweepers.....

Mick

[RRRToolSolutions]

I have both today. My wife and I dated on a 1976 KZ900 34 years ago, so I bought and restored one for our 30th anniversary and no, she did not find that amusing........

I find that I really like the ride better on the Kaw. You sit "in it" as opposed to "on it". Something about the way Kawasaki has the high mounted gauges, fuel tank, and bars gives the feeling you're in the bike. On the Honda, I feel I am sitting on it and looking down at the seat, the tank - hard for me to describe, but very different.

The Kaw has the best brakes I have ever used on a vintage bike. Even with a single disc, the bike out brakes any other vintage bike I have ever ridden. It will out-torque and roll-on from 4,000 (60 to 80) the Honda - even built to 836. They don't have near the leaks and seal/gasket issues over time since they have roller bearing cranks and oil pressure is 7 lbs/inch vs 60 lbs/inch needed on our plain bearing Hondas.

My Kaw has what I'll call blueprinted ports - (done to remove some horrible casting flash and make them conform to design specs)  but my 836 will take it from 7,000 to 10,500 - there is more peak power in the built Honda. If the Kaw had the same mods - the Honda would not stand a chance. A well built Kaw can make 125~140 horsepower. I've ridden one years back with an over-bore, big cam, porting, pods, and an open 4/1 Kerker that would flat rip!

I like Kaw's shifting better, Honda's clutch is the world's best, Honda's braking is horrible, Honda is smoother, wow factor at shows and rides is much better on the Kaw, the Kaw's engine can be completely taken apart in the frame without one of my kits, the Kaw is a wet sump and no oil tank.

Just my observations. Regards, Gordon

[Gearheadgreg]

And i thought i was the only guy that had to deal with that pesky Z1 sok, back in the day!!!...35 years ago my 836 "pictured in my profile" to the left, i could beat a stock Z1 and did many times beat my friends back in the 70's but he could run me down after a 1/4 mile, i had lowered my gear and 15" tire, with lowering blocks, head was ported all out, Webcam springs ect..ect.., i put 45.000 miles on this bike in 2 years in So Cal, BUT!!!!! the 1977 78 750 ss was only 2 tenths of a second behind the Z1 at the end of it's run and beating the DOHC cam bikes, read here> http://vintagemotorcyclesonline.com/features/bike-of-the-month/133-1978-honda-cb750f3  Now the real deal is this......Kawasaki DOHC is and still has the The World Record in the 1/4 mile as the "KING of inline fours" as i tell the people that i hang with...it ain't no Harley or V twin at the TOP of the food chain, It is Larrys Inline four as he put it to me in conversation once! very close to the Z1 motor, except Small block Chevy Crank cut in half LOL..here is the Baddest of them All> SpiderMan..BTW i asked Larry why the Name Spiderman,, his brother that works at the shop said watch him on a run....he Crawls all over that Monster to keep it straight on the back tire LOL,, Larry is a great guy even when i met him he was real cool and helpful to a guy walking into his shop off the street   Enjoy>

 

[SOHC Digger]

Now here's a collector piece; Z1R TC!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200556750253&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

[Gearheadgreg]

Digger, that Turbo Sak is sweet, $17.600 so far! here is Rice O Rama pictures from this last Sept, lots of awesome bikes here, pulled these off the Web,, Click on the Slideshow and hit enlarge  http://s840.photobucket.com/albums/zz321/kldinsmoor/Rice-O-Rama%202010/?albumview=slideshow

[db22]

Reading the dark stories about inexperienced riders on Z1s gave me a chill.  Back in '77, my boss came to work on a new Z1, tossed me the keys and told me to take it out for a spin.  I had little experience with big bikes, but couldn't resist -- then the stories I had heard about about the overpowered, underbraked 2-stroke three-cylinder Kaws began to replay in my head.  I took the bike around the block, never getting it past third gear.  Upon parking it, I revved the engine, shut it down, and told my boss what a fabulous ride it was. Haven't ridden a Kaw since.  Yes, I ride like a little old lady, but I'm alive to read this thread. . .

[HondaMan]

It's interesting to read everyone's input of their experiences on the old Z1 here! 

It still has a cult following, enough so that Z1 Enterprises built a whole business of it. And, they are good bikes, if evaluted against themselves and measured for reliability of "normal" standards of their day. Due to their (hotter) wet sump and type of crankshaft, they don't make a good 100,000 mile bike, though. For this particular reason (and their buzziness when riding at 70 MPH), they didn't make it big in the burgeoning American touring market of the early 1970s.

My experiences with them were that they handled so poorly that no one in our circles could race them effectively in the early 1970s (where we had to run in full stock trim, including frames, changing only shocks and tires was allowed), despite their increased midrange torque over the 736 Honda and superior front brake. And, I know of 4 riders who were killed in our area (open country riding) from the handling troubles. Those can fortunately be fixed today with several of the 'kits' that are available to stiffen up the top half of the dipped frame that lowered the seat height and made it feel so Harley-like to sit in.

My other experiences with it were just plain fun: I built many (still stock bore) 750s to sneak up on and take the Z1 in stoplight and dragraces, which ultimately earned me the nickname that's stuck all these years. 

[wardenerd]

I had a180 yamaha and 2 hours seattime on a honda 350 when I rode a z1 for the first time in college.  I was lucky to live to tell the tale as I rode the hell out of it .  So inexperienced I did not even feel the front wheel off the ground or the sliding in the curves.  the same guy had a suzuki 750 watercooled that was a real beast off the line.  2cycle watercooled amazing.

[Gearheadgreg]

Well....i do have one dark Z1 story.. Friend back in the 70's road his 900 to his college TOGA party....heard this first hand from every girl in town...He got drunk went about a block on the way home on his bike......and he said all he could remember is someone trying to wake him up on the front yard of a house, in the grass.....he said he was scared as he came around he had a White sheet over his head   he moved the sheet off his head and realized it was his TOGA dress   Now the best part was everybody seen this accident and rushed over to see his TOGA was over his Head, and he had NOTHING under it!!!!       you can't make this stuff up true story he was ok