Author Topic: Bearing retainer: Need new strategy... (Read 2875 times)

Nortstudio · « **on:** January 02, 2011, 08:10:17 AM »

Ok, I have done everything that has been recommended, to remove the wheel bearing retainer from my '76 CB550K. I need a new strategy.

I have used penetrating oil, drilled a hole out to 1/8" (is this not enough???), and tried a filed down flat head screwdriver with hammer to separate the retainer from the hub. No luck!

Anyone have any more advice for me. I appreciate your patience, but this is getting ridiculous. I am running out of ideas - and skin on my knuckles....

Thanks

camelman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2011, 10:35:41 AM »

I assume you are talking about your rear wheel hub. Here's what I did.

1) remove the old bed frame that your neighbor left in the driveway
2) cut two sections of the bed frame (one about two feet long and the other about four inches long)
3) weld the short section to one end of the long section to make half an I-Beam. Will look like this: _II_
a) If you don't have a welder, then you could probably bolt them together too
b) You could probably use a flat piece of metal too, I just didn't have a piece wide enough.
5) Drill four holes in the base that correspond to the hole pattern in the bearing retainer
6) insert a bolt into each hole that will fit the pattern of the holes in the bearing retainer
7) tighten a nut down on the bolt to hold its position

place your "wrench" onto the bearing retainer with the bolts in the holes and turn.

It should loosen right out. It worked very easily and quickly on mine recently. I was very surprised, especially since I had just mashed up a hole trying to loosen it with a hammer and punch. I actually didn't use nuts to hold my bolt in place, and i only used three since I drilled one hole out of pattern. It was still super easy to remove like that.

Camelman

Stev-o · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2011, 10:39:16 AM »

I would drill the hole bigger.

736cc · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2011, 10:46:44 AM »

Have a pro do it w/ special tools and experiance 30 minutes from Brooklyn in Freeport, Long Island. Alternative Cycle also has spare CB500/550 wheels and tons of used Jap bike spares.
www.alternativecycleinc.com
516-379-3287

Goofaroo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2011, 11:16:37 AM »

I agree with 736CC. Stop beating yourself up over this. I needed to get the output flange off of my BMW R100S transmission so I could disassemble and rebuild it. I fought with it for about a week before I finally decided to let someone else lay their hands on it. I took it to a shop here in town (the guys that build the frames for such builders as Orange County Choppers) and they told me I could pick it up after lunch and it would be $15. I came back later that day and he seemed a bit aggravated but told me to come back tomorrow. I went back the next day and my transmission, the output flange, and a custom made tool were laying on the counter. You could tell he had battled with it to the point it became a personal challenge. He told me I could keep the tool because he didn't need it anymore, and that it would be $15. I handed him $20 and told him to keep the change.
I don't like to admit defeat and have someone else do it for me but sometimes it's just not worth the struggle.
The pic is the tool that he built out of half inch plate.

Nortstudio · « **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2011, 11:33:29 AM »

Thanks folks. It's just a relief to hea that otters have hit the wall as I have. I had been thinking about taking it to a pro after my last attempt (and severly cut hand), but wanted to make sure I had exhausted all my reasonable options.

Unfortunately I do not weld, but I can drill larger holes if it makes sense to give it one last go. Is tree any major drawback to drilling a bit bigger? Will this permanently damage the hub? Any suggestions of bit diameter? I'm at 1/8" now. The entire access hole in the retainer is about 5/16".

Really appreciate your time.

Scott

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2011, 11:41:21 AM »

Drilling deeper won't affect the retainer's or hub's future ability to hold a bearing. We're talking only 4 or 5 arc degrees out of 360. and that's if you drill all the way thru!

Goofaroo · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2011, 11:46:47 AM »

If you haven't tried warming it up a bit that might help. Sometimes a few minutes with the heat gun will work wonders.

754 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2011, 11:58:27 AM »

I have done dozens of jobs like the Beemer flange one, charge too cheap, NEVER make money on it (CUSTOMER GETS A GREAT DEAL).. no wonder I dont make money..

Dont think anyone mentioned, slightly drilling out the staking mark holes.. That may be mostly what is holding it..

Sometimes you can insert 2 drill bits into the holes, then grab with clamp or 18 inch crescent. As an alternate to the angle iron, you can sometimes use flat aluminum plate..

754 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2011, 12:06:25 PM »

Putting something like Wheel Bearing retainer in title will help

This will almost guarantee, it coming out unscathed....;
First order in a new retainer..
Then read up on the procedure in here & school youself..

(no ..You and Hundreds of other are not figuring it out on their own, first try)

Really though, it is a simple job, once you know.. I would rate it at a 3 out of 10..

Nortstudio · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2011, 12:45:44 PM »

Quote from: 754 on January 02, 2011, 12:06:25 PM

Putting something like Wheel Bearing retainer in title will help

This will almost guarantee, it coming out unscathed....;
First order in a new retainer..
Then read up on the procedure in here & school youself..

(no ..You and Hundreds of other are not figuring it out on their own, first try)

Really though, it is a simple job, once you know.. I would rate it at a 3 out of 10..

I probably should have been more clear. I had a thread yesterday about this, and figured I'd get the usual (same) suspects.

This is the background: I built the tool with bolts and a steel bar, to give me leverage on the retainer. I read every thread i could on this procedure, and then posted questions to fill in the gaps of my understanding. I posted a photo to see whether i was diagnosing the retainer stake correctly (i wasnt, but it did not come up in that first thread). I failed to recognize that the indentation was the stake.

Then when it was pointed out to me what the stake actually was, I drilled it to 1/8" at the point of the stake, tried the tool, and failed. I also tried the method of using two screw drivers crossed, with a third as the leverage. Failed. So it now stands that I have what looks like a hole where the stake was, but that looks to be still fused in some way. My take on it is that the hole from the drill looks more like a solid cylinder going down into BOTH pieces, rather than an open seam (which is what I need to free this damn thing). Hard to describe without a good photo of it, which I can't seem to get either.

754, I would have to say that this job, if all had played out the way it was described, would have been a 1 out of 10 (aren't they all!), but unfortunately this retainer/wheel is not acting the way everyone has described. Which is why I am seeking further clarification, advice or whatever might lead me in the direction of either A) solving this on my own, or B) deciding to take it into a pro before I damage it beyond repair.

It's not for a lack of trying or research, it's more that the retainer will not bend to my sheer force of will

754 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2011, 12:58:42 PM »

Regardless of how the staked holes look after drilling, that part will break free.
IF the PO used loctite, that will change things a lot..

A tip maybe not mentioned, that may help.. if whatever you got that fits into 2 or more of the holes, can clamped into a vise.. do so. then put the wheel over that, then simply turn rim or tire.. lots of leverage.. good luck..

Nortstudio · « **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2011, 01:02:21 PM »

Thanks 754,

I am going to try to secure my new vice To the bench (it's not super solid, but may help) and grab a heat gun to do some heating too. If this doesn't work, I'll resort to the pros.

Appreciate all your time guys.

wildcatmahone · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2011, 02:45:30 PM »

Yeh some times you gotta suck up your pride and take it to a shop.

Give Works Engineering a call to do it for you and call it a day with that wheel. They are located @ 168 N 14th St between Wythe and Kent. Good Luck.

Nortstudio · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2011, 03:06:54 PM »

That's exactly who I was thinking about. They were kind enough to lend me a tool early on for no charge, so maybe this will be returning the favor (or nightmare!)

SohRon · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2011, 10:07:04 PM »

Take it to Honda and get it removed by someone with the right tools and know-how. There's nothing worse than macho keeping someone from doing the sensible thing; don't fall into that trap. There are other reasons for letting the pros do it, as can be explained by my own experience with removing the retainer (quoting here from my own build thread):

When time came to replace the bearings on my bike, I did some searching on this site and got several good ideas as to how to remove the bearing retainer. I tried them all, and none of them worked for me. I even had the guys down in the machine shop come up with a tool to no avail (Thanks Guys!). The retainer stubbornly refused to budge (yes, I was turning it in the right direction) and all I ended up doing was boogering up the spanner holes in the retainer. I finally broke down and went to Honda, and the guy behind the service counter said, "Sure, we can get that retainer off for you. There could be some trouble, though..."

I said, "Trouble?"

He said; "Yeah, they weren't one of Honda's brightest inventions; these old things get stuck on there, and they can be a bear to get off. Depends on when it was last removed. I've seen 'em break the tool, or they can twist the hub, or I've heard of 'em shattering into a million pieces..."

By this time I was starting to get slightly alarmed; visions of the retainer exploding into shrapnel and taking out the entire shop almost brought me back to the War. But, of course, it had to be done, so I left the wheel and new bearings with him with his promise to call me if anything disasterous occured. Fortunately, the procedure was accomplished without loss of life or limb, and I got the potential WMD back the next day replete with new bearings.

Good luck!

Nortstudio · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2011, 05:29:47 AM »

Thanks sohron. In fact, I read your thread early on and had forgotten that little piece. There will be no macho taking over on this end. Just don't have it in me. Stubbornness, well, just a tad. But no macho. I'm goin to swing by the place up the street and see what they have to say.

srook · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2011, 06:04:10 AM »

You may try this. Tap the holes in the bearing retainer with a 1/4 20 tap. Run 2 short bolts into those holes as far as you can. You can then use these bolts as leverage to pry either way. Try to turn the retainer both ways. Heat it up as well and spray some penetrating fluid into the hole you drilled for the stake. You could even wedge a prybar or long pipe along those bolts and hit it with a hammer to break it free.
Scott

Nortstudio · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2011, 06:59:20 AM »

Thanks Scott,

I am going to give a quick try at Heat and a slightly larger hole - and then it's off to a pro for me. I really don't want to damage the damn thing - and i can't seem to get a good enough picture for someone to tell me how close to damage i am getting. So, one more try for the team, and then it's "let it go."

Scott

Gaither · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2011, 08:09:35 AM »

Ain't these ol' bikes fun!

But, we continue to love 'em.

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Author Topic: Bearing retainer: Need new strategy... (Read 2875 times)

srook