Author Topic: need help with under seat electronics  (Read 5301 times)

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Offline slowjo

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need help with under seat electronics
« on: January 02, 2011, 04:46:38 PM »
I'm looking for help moving the electronics to the under side of the seat on my 1972 CB750 cafe project. If anyone has some pics or tips that they can share with me I would greatly appreciate it.

Offline kslrr

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2011, 07:25:53 PM »
Use the search, there have been plenty of electrics-under-seat conversions.
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
        1981 CB650c Custom with '79 engine (wifes)
        1981 CB650 engine
        2004 HD XL883C Custom
        1977 Yamaha XS750D (in progress)
Then 1972 CL175
        1964 Yamaha YGS-1T
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Offline slowjo

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 02:46:49 PM »
I have searched and searched but to no avail. I can not find anything I'm looking for. I'm not looking for step by step instruction on how to do it, just for some tips on how to make the conversion the best that I can. What can be eliminated? What cannot? Problems that I might run into that others have had.   

Offline Kong

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 04:43:24 PM »
I think its a mighty good question and one deserving of a conversation.  I've looked at hundreds of posts, both here and elsewhere, related to Honda-4 builds and haven't run across much at all other than a few photos of tail sections with electrics crammed in.  There has been precious little discussion of what can, should, or might be done.

And its not just under the seat either.  If a bike is to be built, not restored, then just ripping and tearing into the stock harness - with all the spatial limitations that goes with it - just doesn't seem right.

The way I've thought about it there are really two choices.  You can either hide the electrical system (traditional) or you can display it (rare).  My thinking is that if you have the ability to put together a pretty as well as functional electrical system then you should do so and make it plain for any one inspecting the bike to see.  If you can't do that then hide it.    Either way the stock system gives you all the model you need, what you really want to do is relocate stuff.   So, what do you want to put where.

First thing is the battery.  What do you plan to do for one and where do you plan to put it?  The next big part is the starter solenoid, which should be somewhere reasonably close to the battery.  The next two big parts are the regulator and the rectifier.  Because these two are intimately linked and also have to be connected to the bike's alternator moving them to a remote location will involve splicing wires and increasing their length by a considerable margin.  They also have to have air flow, but be protected from splash.  The last part to be considered is the flasher unit, but its small and can be put just about anywhere.

Control wiring is problematic.  Honda brought everything together in the headlight but there's no good reason for you to do the same.  You can make connections anywhere.

Just stuff to think about.
2002 FXSTD/I  Softail Deuce
2001 Acura (Honda) CL Type-S
1986 Honda Rebel, 450
1978 Honda CB550K
1977 Honda CB550K

Offline slowjo

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 05:32:05 PM »
Just like you stated Kong It can be hidden or displayed. 20 years ago I was into big loud car stereos. I loved to build custom speaker enclosures for myself and friends. Sometimes I would hide the electronics, other times would show it off. My seat is a giuliari style seat from classic cycle city. I would use a small sealed battery that would be concealed underneath the seat. All I need is a little spark to get my imagination going.

mark3406e

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 05:49:40 PM »
Can you post a pic of your tail to give us something to work with?  The way im doing mine is to use a small lithium phosphate battery and building a new harness from scratch. Im using a sealed four circuit fuse box and running it with a standerd relay.

Hope this helps I will keep an eye on this thread to see I can be of any help.
http://www.carbon-speed.com/prod.htm
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 05:56:10 PM by mark3406e »

Offline Slams77

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2011, 07:22:58 PM »
Can you post a pic of your tail to give us something to work with?  The way im doing mine is to use a small lithium phosphate battery and building a new harness from scratch. Im using a sealed four circuit fuse box and running it with a standerd relay.

Hope this helps I will keep an eye on this thread to see I can be of any help.
http://www.carbon-speed.com/prod.htm
Nice way to shed a couple of pounds.  What bike will you be using this on?  Please post pics and progress once you have installed this setup. 

Offline Kong

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2011, 08:21:38 PM »
I ordered an X-Cell late last week and it arrived today.  I'm just amazed by it.  I got the 4 cell unit; it should power the 550's starter according to reports.  The battery is 4.5" wide, 4" tall, and slightly over 1" thick, it weighs about .75 pound - it easily fits in a shirt pocket.  That, my dear friends, is a real weight saver.

My battery and the solenoid will both reside on a tray across the V, below the air cleaner (I'm on the list for one of TinTop's units).  I'm going to put my regulator and rectifier in the tail section, the flasher up in the headlight.  I have clip on's on the bike and will run the control wires through the tube and out the fronts to be routed under the tank,  This will require that they all be extended.  All of my control connections will be made under the tank.  This said all I am doing is changing the locations of parts - I still intend to follow the stock Honda wiring scheme with only a few exceptions.  Both exceptions are for circuits where relays will be used on the power supply side.  One of those will be for the head light (Euro-spec light and high amp bulb) and the other for the ignition; the ignition relay will be powered through the Kill switch.

For wiring I got a spare stock harness and took it apart just for the wires.  My splices will be the same color as the original wire.  All bundles in the new harness will be encased in clear shrink fit and I will make no attempt to hide any of it, though in truth about all that will show will be some routing around the V and to the tail section.

This is all sort of a lose plan right now.  Once I've got the tail light and the tail-section-electroncis mount's made and secured I'll start running wires, one sub-system at a time.

What's your plan? 
2002 FXSTD/I  Softail Deuce
2001 Acura (Honda) CL Type-S
1986 Honda Rebel, 450
1978 Honda CB550K
1977 Honda CB550K

mark3406e

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2011, 05:32:17 AM »
Slams77 im doing it on CB750 K4.  I have already done most of it so I can keep on riding. I will see if I can get some pics. I also eliminated a lot of wiring by building my own harness.

Offline ryani

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2011, 06:03:31 AM »
I built a small box that hangs inside the frame rails that house my small battery and other necessary electrics.  I'll post up some pics after work.  I eliminated the fuses and used small breakers.

Offline slowjo

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2011, 02:25:18 PM »
Here is a current pic of my set up on my 1971 CB750 K1.

Offline slowjo

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2011, 02:37:15 PM »
I'm having trouble posting pics of my current setup. My bike is a 1971 CB750 K1.

Offline slowjo

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2011, 02:47:29 PM »
Here are some pics.

Offline slowjo

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2011, 02:53:26 PM »
I tried to make a rear hoop out of 1'' round steel but it only kinked. I made this using 1 1/4 flat stock bent to fit the radius of my cafe seat, that is currently in my basement. I would like to make a new rear hoop like the ones that Benji sells. With the seat on you can not tell that my rear hoop is made from flat stock not round tube.

Offline ryani

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2011, 06:26:22 PM »
Here's my solution for my under seat battery and electrics.  It allows me to run a two up seat.  It works pretty good.  The three breakers are for the main, headlight, and taillight.  The on/off switch if for the headlight.  It's just on or off and allows me to have just a small horn button on the left handlebar.  I'm not running blinkers either.

Offline Slams77

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2011, 09:51:05 PM »
That hoop looks nice slowjo.  A lot of useful bits here guys, I'll be following this thread.

Offline CBGhia

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2011, 04:16:52 AM »
Here's my solution for my under seat battery and electrics.  It allows me to run a two up seat.  It works pretty good.  The three breakers are for the main, headlight, and taillight.  The on/off switch if for the headlight.  It's just on or off and allows me to have just a small horn button on the left handlebar.  I'm not running blinkers either.

I really like the under seat box there.  I was planning on doing something like it, but since I am not using electric start, mine will be much thinner.  Really just the stock electronics plate turned on its side and trimmed to fit with a box for protection. My battery will be tiny, about the size of 3 9v's stuck together.
CB550 Cafe, GL1000, Buell Ulysses
if you dont trial spin the camshaft in the head and cover you are a novice,with no natural mechanical appitude,destined for destruction.
"The cleaner the dipstick, the closer to God." -Rev. Horton Heat
“Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.”  - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Kong

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2011, 06:44:07 AM »
Here's my solution for my under seat battery and electrics.  It allows me to run a two up seat.  It works pretty good.  The three breakers are for the main, headlight, and taillight.  The on/off switch if for the headlight.  It's just on or off and allows me to have just a small horn button on the left handlebar.  I'm not running blinkers either.

I really like the under seat box there.  I was planning on doing something like it, but since I am not using electric start, mine will be much thinner.  Really just the stock electronics plate turned on its side and trimmed to fit with a box for protection. My battery will be tiny, about the size of 3 9v's stuck together.

CBGhia,

Is yours a street bike and if so what precautions have you taken for reserve power during times of extended idling?
2002 FXSTD/I  Softail Deuce
2001 Acura (Honda) CL Type-S
1986 Honda Rebel, 450
1978 Honda CB550K
1977 Honda CB550K

Offline mrrch

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2011, 07:49:40 AM »
Check out  "the architect"'s 75 CB750 project, he made a slim under seat electronics box(around page 3).
I just cannot remember how to link it.
my build

1977 CB750K WITH 1976 CB750F ENGINE

Offline ryani

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2011, 08:30:24 AM »
My box is about as thin as I could get it.  I'm using a ford reg thats cut out of its case and a mini 3 phase rec.  The battery is a 7amp/hr with 130 cca.

The box is 3.5" deep.

Offline Slams77

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2011, 11:51:39 AM »
My box is about as thin as I could get it.  I'm using a ford reg thats cut out of its case and a mini 3 phase rec.  The battery is a 7amp/hr with 130 cca.

The box is 3.5" deep.

I'm also running the 3 phase rectifier and ford regulator (which is a bit bulky for my CB400).  Did you encase it in something else once you cut it out of the original housing?

Offline ryani

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2011, 11:59:57 AM »
Actually the brand I purchased from O'riellys had the circuit board encased in a hard plastic.  I just cut the metal case off and then soldered a wire to the small tab that was connecting to the case.  Its very thin now and much smaller. 

Apparently i have mine wired wrong though because its draining my battery. haha

Offline CBGhia

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2011, 12:18:07 PM »
I really like the under seat box there.  I was planning on doing something like it, but since I am not using electric start, mine will be much thinner.  Really just the stock electronics plate turned on its side and trimmed to fit with a box for protection. My battery will be tiny, about the size of 3 9v's stuck together.


CBGhia,

Is yours a street bike and if so what precautions have you taken for reserve power during times of extended idling?

#1 Precaution:  Don't idle for long periods. 
Seriously,  I plan to add a switch for the headlight to turn it off if needed.  The battery should be sufficient for a few minutes of idling and if I have to sit longer than that, I am the kind of guy who will skirt the side of the highway.  I don't use this as a daily driver, so that's not a problem.  If i do take it to work, I don't really have traffic where I am.  i guess if I were in a parade or something I might have a problem, but I really don't see that happening.
You do make a good point though.  Perhaps I will look at a slightly larger one.  Not stock size by any means, but something a little bigger.
CB550 Cafe, GL1000, Buell Ulysses
if you dont trial spin the camshaft in the head and cover you are a novice,with no natural mechanical appitude,destined for destruction.
"The cleaner the dipstick, the closer to God." -Rev. Horton Heat
“Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.”  - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline ryani

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2011, 02:10:45 PM »
cbghia

The battery I'm using has pretty good reserve and it very small compared to the stock one.  It's sealed so you can mount any direction.  The battery dimensions are 4.5 x2.75x4.125.  It cranks the bike very well. Here's the model number of the battery.  YTZ7S  I got mine on Ebay for $32.00

Offline slowjo

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Re: need help with under seat electronics
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2011, 06:41:30 AM »
What battery should I run? I'm planning to use all the electronics such as blinkers starter, should I go with a regulator/rectifier combo or with two separate units. I don't thing that space will be a problem with my seat. What brand of replacement electronics should I go with? Thanks.