Topic: Torque of spokenipples

[Esau]

I have a Honda CB 750 -74 and the workshop manual writes about the torque of the nipples of the spokes but I cant find the correct value for my bike.
Can anybody out there give me a hint?

[fantino]

My clymer manual shows 1.5-2.5 ft-lb of torque.

FWIW these torque values aren't very helpful in actually building a strong wire spoke wheel. Proper, uniform tension are the key factors in building or maintaining a strong and reliable wheel. It's really easy to accurately test for tension in a bicycle wheel because of the finer gauge of wire, less so with these big bulky motorcycle spokes (at least with the tools I use :-p)

With a motorcycle wheel... if you're getting a nice musical *ping* out of the spoke, and not a dull thud, you've probably reached sufficient tension. If the wheel is true and round (1-2/100" should be sufficient) and none of the spokes ring at a tone more than a full note apart (you can use a cheap chromatic tuner, a guitar, etc. to gauge this) then you should have reasonably uniform tension across your wheel. In a perfect world anyways. Sometimes you just get a spoke that won't fall into line with the rest. Usually time and stress-relieving will help to sort them out to some extent.

[Esau]

Thanks for the answer I must rely on the torque because I haven't the ear of an musician.

[octagon]

1.5 to 2.5 is a pretty big range considering how low the numbers are. to get it right, you might have to go by more than torque values.

[lone*X]

OK, my curiosity has been peaked.  I have laced more than a few (but maybe not as many as some) rims over the years and currently have a set of GL1000 rims that needs to be laced when I get time.  I have always used the pitch method of "tuning" the spokes with great success.  Now I want to know what kind of torque wrench (it would need to be an inch/pound wrench) you could use with a spoke wrench.  Is there a special tool for this?

[lone*X]

1.5 to 2.5 is a pretty big range considering how low the numbers are. to get it right, you might have to go by more than torque values.

Inch Pound wrench would equal 24 inch/pounds to 40 inch/pound.  They are used for just such ranges.

[crazypj]

You can use a pre-set torque screwdriver from inside rim, need special bit, looks like miniature Triumph clutch adjuster tool
 (wide screwdriver bit with a slot in the middle)
 Never used one but seen them and they look cool  

[Esau]

You find the tools in http://www.hondacbfour.com/download/man_officina/pdf_manuali/hctm/hctm.pdf
look at part 15 in the manual.

[fantino]

1.5 to 2.5 is a pretty big range considering how low the numbers are. to get it right, you might have to go by more than torque values.

I misread a 5 as a 2, so it's actually 1.5 to 2.2. The low end value is given for the rear wheel and the high value for the front with an overlapping value between them (1.9) so the gap isn't quite as large. Sorry for the misleading information, haha.

So:

Rear: 18-23 in-lb

Front: 23-26 in-lb

[lone*X]

Crazypj it sound like that might be easy to make.  Most inch/pound torque wrenches are 1/4 inch drive so you could cut a screwdriver blade to fit with the center notch and silver solder it into an appropriate 1/4 socket.  Sounds doable if you already have the inch pound wrench which can be a bit pricey.  

Also just found this:  http://www.speedsupplies.com/accessorylistingdetailpurch.asp?item=20616

Even more pricey.  

[fantino]

Also just found this:  http://www.speedsupplies.com/accessorylistingdetailpurch.asp?item=20616

Even more pricey.  

Now that's just rad. But yeah, very spendy unless you plan on using it a lot. I'll stick with tone testing, haha.

[grumpy]

I was wondering about this, too.

I've built 100s of bicycle wheels so the lacing and truing are no problem but I have no clue how you'd check tension on big cycle spokes...

[Spanner 1]

Talk of spoken nipples should not be allowed 

[fantino]

I was wondering about this, too.

I've built 100s of bicycle wheels so the lacing and truing are no problem but I have no clue how you'd check tension on big cycle spokes...

I guess you just have to rely on torque values to get you in the ballpark? Or work off of a known good wheel as a reference.

I wonder if the torque values given in the manual are for bare wheels or with inflated tires. I don't know if it holds true with the beefy rims and lower pressures on motorcycle wheels, but tension readings drop on a bicycle wheel when you inflate a tire around them.

[grumpy]

I guess you just have to rely on torque values to get you in the ballpark?

Seems to me there's way too much room for error with that method. The friction of the nipple grinding on the rim can vary quite a bit depending on the condition of the rim surface and whether you've LUBED YOUR NIPPLES!!!! There, I made a nipple joke. 

[domer]

im no expert, lord knows ive been wrong many times before... but ive always tightened untill they just "ting" when tapped with a 8mm open end, then proceed with truing... hell i couldnt even tell you if they hit the same note or not, besides wouldnt they be different values after truing?

[Ichiban 4]

It's been over 30 years since I built a wire wheel from scratch..but the first thing was/is to get the spokes all "snugged" with the rim trued to the wheel stand/jig.  If you don't consider the trueness as a first priority..it can become impossible to get it trued once the nipples are tightened (or worse..you create flat-spots in the rim..very difficult to rectify once in).

After the wheel is perfectly trued (again using a wheel stand/jig..impossible to do simply by "eye")..then and only then do you proceed to systematically tighten each nipple in succession (a little out of sequence tightening may be necessary to tweak things a bit..but usually not much..if the wheel was trued initially).

As far as final "torque settings" I've never seen a torque wrench applied to spoke tightening (doesn't mean that it's not done..just that it seems rare).  Most tightening is done by feel..and experience of course.  It's possible to overtighten..and either strip the threads on the nipple (again rare..but possible)..or more likely..pull the rim out of true.

Wire wheels are actually pretty tough..if everything's even/balanced.  As long as the spokes/nipples are relatively tight..and not flopping around in their holes..they are usually good to go.  BTW: all wire wheels/spokes need checking and perhaps a little snugging after a few thousand miles..simply because of bouncing/stresses on them during use.

Just some remembrances from previous years..

Ichi

[y2kc0wb0y]

Cannot see the spoke tension tool (bicycle) working on these large spokes anyway.

[vanillagorilla]

Ichi nailed it.