Author Topic: '77 CB 400F "Gracy" : NOW WITH FORK BRACE! (Read 9218 times)

TPColgett · « **on:** January 05, 2011, 08:08:19 PM »

As if I didn't already have enough on my plate with restoring my dad's bike, here comes this sweet little ride. A 1977 CB 400F with 4800 original miles on the clock. Was a local bike that spent most of its life in Hawaii and the last 20 years in a shed here in Cali. The PO popped in a new battery and cleaned the carbs, and although it sounds like they need a synch, she fires up and sounds great! Unfortunately the PO treated the tank with a sealer, without cleaning or stripping it first, so that will be the first project. I see more of "The Works" in my future

I originally wanted a basket case or a non runner that I could happily mod away into a cafe/custom but this bike just seems too complete and to close to clean to rip into. I think a few mods will be in order being that I plan to make this a daily rider. So far the thoughts are electronic ignition, dual disk conversion, HID and LED signals, lightweight battery, maybe a change in paint scheme, but otherwise I think Ill try to leave this one mostly stock.

More to come....

MoMo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2011, 08:21:06 PM »

That seems to be in really good condition, how much did it set you back? The 77 model was the rarest of the 400 four, at the time they really weren't very popular and Honda stopped making them due to sales not meeting expectations...Larry

TPColgett · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2011, 08:26:39 PM »

From what Ive managed to dig up, she seems to be one of 5,060 exported to the US and Canada, which definitely makes me one lucky guy! I did end up blowing my whole budget at $1500, but at 5'6" Ive been looking for a good 400F for a while to be a daily. I'm hoping to have her on the road as soon as possible to help with my commute and those pesky Bay Area Bridge tolls!

MoMo · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2011, 08:48:45 PM »

That is a good deal. If you decide to cafe it, keep the original parts. All the 400 fours I have I leave stock, it is hard to improve on a great design...Larry

TPColgett · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2011, 09:02:01 PM »

Coming from a family that restores classic cars..... we don't throw anything away >_< I like the thought of less draw on the battery and weak charging system from modern electronics and i plan to emulate the same dual disc conversion that my father did on his 75 CB 550F using another caliper and disk and making my own hard line.... The head is buzzing with ideas that the budget currently doesn't support

MoMo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2011, 06:20:15 AM »

I understand wanting to upgrade the lights and ignition but I would say the 400f charging system is not weak. I have one that I use as a daily rider and have never had any electrical issue. A brighter headlight would be nice though but stock is ok with me as I mostly ride daylight. Have fun...Larry

fasturd · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2011, 06:52:14 AM »

The dual disc program wont work as the stock forks are not set up to locate a left and right caliper hanger. The 400s and 360s shared forks and the right side is bare...

If you tune up the stock brakes you will most likely be pleased with its performance. I took mine to a track day this last summer and I had motor and brakes enough to embarass a couple of GSXR1000s.

Low mile 400s bring pretty good money on Ebay. You might want to clean it up stock sellit and take the GAINS to find and modify a higher milage example. Nicely detailed low milage 400s go $4000+ all day long on ebay. I have sold one 2 years ago for $5000 and it had 12K on it.

Regardless they are fun to ride. Do all the usual start up maintenance and enjoy or sell...lol.

There is a link to my build thread on my post check it out.

Good luck.

TPColgett · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2011, 07:53:49 PM »

@photolar

I'm thinking a Dyna s with the 5 ohm coils and wires for the ignition and for the headlight I already have a DDM 35W Hi/Lo H4 6000K. If the budget allows I also like the idea of the Ballistick 4 cell battery. Still need to research and pick LED turn signals though.

@fasturd

I followed along with "13" and must say you helped inspire my desire to find one of these 400's! If you know anywhere a guy could snag another pair of those EPM Mags..... OR that Brembo kit.....

I know what you mean about reselling this bike. It's complete except the manual and the two rear grab rails that were removed with the rack that was on the bike before I got it. A little elbow grease an maybe there would be $$$ in it, but I think I'm already attached >_<

Well, since I stopped by Walmart, I decided to not wait for the weekend and have started on the tank

Its perdy rough in there

Good thing I already ordered a replacement tube and Airing for the petcock

Add your favorite abrasives, make sure to count how many! (20 screws 3 chains)

Add some 20% Hydrogen Chloride

SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE

aaaaaaand... Initial results were less than I hoped for

I'm trying a second round with some time soaking on each side and hopefully I'll have better news to report later...

MoMo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2011, 03:53:18 AM »

Don't know much about hydrochloric acid but I do know phosphoric acid works pretty well, bought a gallon at the local Home Depot and cleaned out my Jawa tank pretty well-but it was no where near as bad as yours. And you should use a degreaser/cleaner before the acid....Larry

bwaller · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2011, 04:34:32 AM »

I don't think the screws will reach all the areas in the tank. I've tried lots of different materials, but crazy or not the absolute best abrasive were crushed stone chips you'll find in someones parking lot or driveway! Not dust, but small pieces, they are all different shapes and don't leave any part of the tank untouched. It is definitely more work removing after, but worth the hassle.

TPColgett · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2011, 05:49:34 PM »

@photolar

Ive used this cleaner before with good results on my dads tank, see our other currently stalled project
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67512.msg744545#msg744545 results are half way down on the second page. Worked great on a tank with light rust and gas stains but barely dented the set up sealer in there

@bwaller

That is not a bad idea, the parents roof is covered in the light gravel might just have to try a handful when I get back to acid washing

Upon recommendation we switched over to paint stripper. Man that stuff is gnarly. Its made to break up epoxy so we were hopeful...

And that is just the big chunks that i kept for a photo! Its now so broken up I can still here bits rattling around when I shake it. Its going to take a while to get it all out. However I found a bigger issue, and most likely while the PO put the sealer in in the first place.....

This is going to slow me down big time. My dad had success soldering up some bad pin holes in his tank a while ago... time to go learn a new skill I guess

TPColgett · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2011, 03:35:56 PM »

I did manage to recover the remnants of the in tank filter...

And although maybe over kill, I stuck to the motto"when in doubt, fill it up an then file it out!"

And after a quick fill and check, there appears to only be two small pin holes about hereish

I'm going to run another round of the paint stripper through there, and ill try to solder those last two up . If that doesn't get it, a properly applied Por 15 kit should catch anything that I miss

fasturd · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2011, 05:02:18 AM »

Bummer on the crack/gash but it looks like you are on your way to adecent solution. Sometimes it seems like P/Os belong to a club dedicated exclusively to frustrating people who genuinely want to resurect something.

I would like to say that if I found some more EPM wheels and a Brembo set up that I would let you know, but I would be lying...

TPColgett · « **Reply #13 on:** January 11, 2011, 12:12:13 PM »

@fasturd

Yea, PO's Tend to leave us all kinds of surprises don't they? And I don't blame you on the mags, although I would settle for the front clip from a 400N Superdream... I like the look of the Comstars and really would like to have a dual front setup. Sadly I'm having trouble finding one of those bikes in the USA

The POR15 arrives in 4 more business days! Wish I could say the same for the parts from the stealership...

fasturd · « **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2011, 07:01:35 PM »

Honda CB450T and CM450T should have the wheel set you are looking for. Not sure if the right fork leg has the brake caliper bosses though, but those models are wearing comstars.

TPColgett · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2011, 07:06:13 PM »

Hmm, sounds like a trip to the local wrecker is in order!

TPColgett · « **Reply #16 on:** January 27, 2011, 05:57:41 PM »

So some progress has been made. I havent convinced myself to do a full tear down yet, since my new goal is to be on the road before March in time for The Ride! But here is the progress so far

Its interesting, a majority of the bike is very clean, and then there are super snotty areas like my lower triple $:-\$

I got the tires unmounted, took a mountain of pictures, got brave and now have them unlaced. I found a local gent who is making me a new set of spokes on some awesome 19teens machinery. His warehouse was filed to the gills with all kinds of nostalgia and goodies since he used to race Ducati's back in the early 70's. The wealth of my local motorcycle community astounds me in a good way

I pulled the front breaks apart, shipped my rotor to get drilled, and pulled the hoses to send out to be copied in stainless.

A little gooey in there but since the MC was frozen that is no surprise. I cheated and stole the rebuilt MC of my dads 550 and used it to get the piston out, which is in surprisingly great shape!

Since we replaced the 550's MC with a modern dual disk one, it looks like that saves me a rebuild and a dreaded wrestling match with that recessed snap ring!!!

The tank is nearing cleanliness. I have one final round of paint stripper soaking the area with the last big gobs of previous sealer, and then I can put in the Por15. I also received a new petcock, fuel hose, and an inline filter just in case, so if all goes well my fuel system may be completed by the end of the weekend....

Man this near 70 degree weather is the best motivation ever!

Kwality · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2011, 05:29:13 PM »

Some good progress there mate. Subscribed!

Leigh

Greggo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2011, 06:35:59 PM »

Lookin good so far!

TPColgett · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2011, 06:54:58 PM »

Once I got the spokes out I ran the rims on the wire wheel and managed to knock out most of the surface rust

They will still need to be media blasted before powder will stick, and luckily my friends father can get them done for me next week!

The exhaust flanges polished up nicely

For the most part the headers in great shape, no dings and decent chrome.

I really want to have it ceramic coated though, just have to find some place that does it local. The muffler is pretty much toast, so a replacement will get ordered from the UK next pay check.

I also ordered new wheel bearings today from All Balls. Now I have to get the front and rear hubs disassembled and polished. I'm thinking of painting the inner finned portions to match the tank and covers. Thoughts?

Owned · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2011, 12:38:48 PM »

Is that a rusty Roller the header is sitting on?

TPColgett · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2011, 12:40:53 PM »

Haha, yes one of several around here

Gcolgett · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2011, 01:11:12 PM »

what next? are you painting the frame?

TPColgett · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2011, 09:04:40 PM »

Wheels were dropped off for media blasting and powder coat. My friend said he may not be happy with the finish and depending may strip them first.

I think the next step will be to get the swing arm out for powder and rebuild. Also, putting some attention into that snotty bottom triple would be a great excuse to upgrade to tapered steering bearings...

TPColgett · « **Reply #24 on:** April 01, 2011, 10:07:06 PM »

It has been quite a while, but I come bearing photos and video of mass progress!!!

New wheel bearings installed and hubs cleaned up, made a wrench from a piece of flat stock that I got at the shop that powdered the rims.

A mountain of parts arrived and were installed!

caliper o ring for the rebuild

new petcock, although this looks to be for a 75-76 model and no idea if it will work

This is a slick adapter that lets me fit a modern spin on oil filter. Not only does it look the business, but future additional oil changes will be a snap and no more worries over stripped bolts!

New stainless lines (foreshadowing of the planned color scheme,) and a speed bleeder which was a total life saver when initially bleeding the system!

I had heard great things about this high temp ceramic paint, and now I nothing but great things to say! matches the powder on the rims and is slowly coating everything I pull off, inner rotor, caliper and swing arm for a start.

So some improvements have been made cosmetically, tons mechanically and soooo much more to go!

The clear skies and 70+ degree weather were just to much for me... I had to go for a ride! A temp tank was a snap to rig up (sadly the main tank is still causing unending grief and may have to be replace T_T) and I was off around the house!

MOV00610

of course in my enthusiasm i made it three feet before stalling lol. Dad wanted to help and was a willing camera man while I ripped up and down the drive way on a celebratory romp!

MOV00611

So much more to do, no headlight now, gaping hole in muffler still, snott everywhere!, title and registration pending, tank...situation... BUT shes alive, I got to ride, and with a whole weekend of blue sky coming there is more to come!!!

Greggo · « **Reply #25 on:** April 02, 2011, 10:25:02 AM »

Where can I find one of those oil filter adapters?

MasterChief750 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 02, 2011, 10:29:24 AM »

i nabbed one on ebay

TPColgett · « **Reply #27 on:** April 02, 2011, 10:32:16 AM »

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300529554768

$58 shipped in the US. Having looked at the adapter when I got it, some one skilled with a lathe could run one up for the price of the aluminum and threaded stock. Either way I am very happy with it!

TPColgett · « **Reply #28 on:** April 02, 2011, 02:49:48 PM »

Carb synch complete!

Pulls much better through the top end, small burbles and pops around 7.5K and still getting used to where she wants to idle. I am pleased to report a nearly suspicious lack of cam chain noise even down around a 1K idle. Idles much happier around 1500 though.

Today's progress also included locating a slip on muffler designed for the bike and placing an order for a custom fork brace. I went to change plugs and was genuinely surprised to find brand spanking new Champion R6's in there. Guess Ill hang on to my stock pile of R6 G's a little longer >_<

I talked to a local contact who said he had molds for a fiber glass tank... Laying glass is a new skill I would have to pick up but one that sounds like it has interesting possibilities. Now I just have to estimate cost and weigh that against attempting to keep repairing the tank I have...

TPColgett · « **Reply #29 on:** April 24, 2011, 10:22:11 PM »

I have the bike back now!

With a shiny new fork brace:

This style of brace wont allow me to run a front fender, although the machinist said he could make one that would. That would be a 7 piece clamp vs the 3 piece though increasing cost and weight. Weight is nothing! The X piece itself weighs something like 3 ounces

The slip on Mac muffler is on, but to dark for photos. I confirmed the headlight bulb was good, and that there was power at the fuse box, nothing at the connector in the bucket though... back to the wiring diagram $:-\$

SanDogDewey · « **Reply #30 on:** April 27, 2011, 07:54:10 PM »

Get those carbs cleaned and she'll idle nicely.

socalenduro · « **Reply #31 on:** April 28, 2011, 07:07:06 AM »

sweet brace....where did you get it? how much did you pay?

TPColgett · « **Reply #32 on:** April 28, 2011, 12:25:18 PM »

I stumbled across TKat and his work on an XS650Forum, but he was up to the challenge of making a one off for my little SOHC4. You can check out his work and contact him through his site:

http://www.tkat.com/forkbrace.html

He kept the drawings from my brace so it could easily be reproduced and I know he has a one piece race designed brace for the 550 as well on file. A great guy to work with!

As far as price, you'd have to negotiate with him, he's retired and I was local so I brought the bike to his shop. He only charged me $125 for the three piece "special" design (which wont allow a front fender) and I think it was a steal for the workmanship!

socalenduro · « **Reply #33 on:** April 28, 2011, 11:13:36 PM »

ohhhh its even got a little lip to put the dust wipers back on.... pretty slick...
is the front end noticeably stiffer?

TPColgett · « **Reply #34 on:** April 28, 2011, 11:18:21 PM »

With no tank still, I haven't been able to "thoroughly" test it yet

but It is very very trick and as the machinist said, as long as im not throwing her side ways at sears point, it will do just fine lol

TPColgett · « **Reply #35 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:40:30 PM »

Well when all looked dim, a ray of light has broken through in the area of my tank! A local radiator shop wants my parents shops business and asked for a piece to demonstrate there capabilities on...

oh man am I excited to see what they make of that rusted out colander like POS!

TPColgett · « **Reply #36 on:** January 04, 2013, 11:36:35 AM »

So it has been a while...TOO Long sadly. Got the tank back. Multiple patches had to be welded into the hump area and over my original soldered repairs and a full liner was done by my local radiator shop. Tank needs minor body work to clean up the "lead " slug they used to patch a whole in the top but is otherwise now 100%

Only pic I have, appears to pass feline inspection!

I have a small mountain of additional parts...

Tapered steering stem bearings

New DSS side covers

Solid front race axle Part # 400-022 from ttr400

Tach blanking plug Part # 400-032 from from ttr400

New MAC slip on muffler (actually on the bike)

Generic fork ears and LED blinkers with a Roc city Spitfire headlight bucket with a 90%
completed HID conversion (housing and retaining ring with DDM 35/55w hi lo kit)

Carpy "Cafe Racer Front Fairing"

Fully "bolt on" ( from a modified seat pan, IE hinge and plunger lock still work) "cafe" seat with LED brake light

2 Full carb rebuild kits

... And that is just what I can remember right now...

The future of this project is now uncertain however. I already have my fathers 550 and several other bikes. I will be posting a link to this thread in the Classifieds soon and entertaining offers...

Free Booter · « **Reply #37 on:** January 04, 2013, 11:13:25 PM »

Nice Brace! Tkat made the one for my CB750k5 too. He does top notch work. Fit like a glove.

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Author Topic: '77 CB 400F "Gracy" : NOW WITH FORK BRACE! (Read 9218 times)