Author Topic: Points? (Read 6275 times)

NewOldSchool · « **on:** January 18, 2011, 02:50:56 PM »

I was riding home when I suddenly lost power and the bike would not idle and ran on 2 cylinders below 3000rpm, but when reved above 4000 or so it pulled strongly. I got home and cleaned the contact points and it ran and idled on all 4 cylinders then died again so I put it away because it was too dark to work on. This morning I started the bike and again it won't idle and only the cylinder 1 and 4 pipes got hot. Im guessing the cyl 2/3 points are toast?

I was looking for an excuse to switch to either Dyna S or Hondaman ignition, looks like I found it?!

Greggo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2011, 05:50:01 PM »

Quote from: NewOldSchool on January 18, 2011, 02:50:56 PM

I was riding home when I suddenly lost power and the bike would not idle and ran on 2 cylinders below 3000rpm, but when reved above 4000 or so it pulled strongly. I got home and cleaned the contact points and it ran and idled on all 4 cylinders then died again so I put it away because it was too dark to work on. This morning I started the bike and again it won't idle and only the cylinder 1 and 4 pipes got hot. Im guessing the cyl 2/3 points are toast?

I was looking for an excuse to switch to either Dyna S or Hondaman ignition, looks like I found it?!

Go HondaMan!

nancy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2011, 05:54:41 PM »

Doesn't the HM system still require a functional set of points? If you have a major drama with one set - maybe best to remedy this. I too would come to the points conclusion given it is 1 & 3 affected. The rpm factor may indicate that the points advancer mechanism is involved in this mayhem perhaps? Do your points an 1 & 3 look severely pitted? Pull out the advancer mech. and lubricate - procedure as mentioned somewhere on this forum...
regards
Mark

NewOldSchool · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:39:28 PM »

Quote from: nancy on January 18, 2011, 05:54:41 PM

Doesn't the HM system still require a functional set of points? If you have a major drama with one set - maybe best to remedy this. I too would come to the points conclusion given it is 1 & 3 affected. The rpm factor may indicate that the points advancer mechanism is involved in this mayhem perhaps? Do your points an 1 & 3 look severely pitted? Pull out the advancer mech. and lubricate - procedure as mentioned somewhere on this forum...
regards
Mark

I believe you mean 2&3 as they share a set of points. Good idea on checking the advance unit as well.

camelman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:43:51 PM »

I don't think it is your points. If you only get good power at high rpm, then I'd look at the condenser. Bad points are bad points at all rpm. Bad condensers first show themselves at lower rpm.

Camelman

nancy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:46:42 PM »

Yeh - sorry,..2 & 3 intended.

Kong · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:50:06 PM »

It might do you some good to consider your condensers too. If one of them has failed it will kill - or greatly impair - the spark generated for its associated coil. If you find you have a set of burned points, its probably because the condenser associated with that points set has begun to go bad (leak down badly). If you like you can picture it in your mind this way, every time your plugs fire with that great big jolt of electricity, well, a second smaller jolt shoots back down the small wire to the points, and it is the job of the condenser to absorb that jolt. When the condenser begins to fail the pulse of power finds its way to the point's face, and begins to erode it. So your dead points may in fact just be a symptom of bad condensers.

Might help, might not, 50-50 chance.

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2011, 07:34:37 PM »

Hey man, a set of points don't last forever

Seems the fsm calls for at least an inspection every 1500mi. The manual will also tell you how to file them smooth, clean the contacts, set the gap, and adjust the timing. Seems a lot of guys have trouble servicing their points and just get expensive electronic ignition. A well fettled breaker point ignition is one of my favorite things about these bikes.

BobbyR · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2011, 07:39:55 PM »

I had an odd one. 2&3 would go out and come back. Turns out the wire going to the points had worn over the years at the hold down tab on the engine case.

Greggo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2011, 08:30:40 PM »

Quote from: nancy on January 18, 2011, 05:54:41 PM

Doesn't the HM system still require a functional set of points? If you have a major drama with one set - maybe best to remedy this. I too would come to the points conclusion given it is 1 & 3 affected. The rpm factor may indicate that the points advancer mechanism is involved in this mayhem perhaps? Do your points an 1 & 3 look severely pitted? Pull out the advancer mech. and lubricate - procedure as mentioned somewhere on this forum...
regards
Mark

Yes, the HM unit does require a funtioning set of points/condensors/a well lubed advance, but his system dramatically increases the life of the points from what I understand. I bought one for my '65 CA95 (a 6 volt single point-360 degree crank) to help lengthen the short service intervals for the points on that bike.

My CB500 has a Dyna S I picked up cheap, but if I had a time machine, I would have just gone with the HM unit on her, as the Dyna draws more power than the points driven ignition on these bikes.

Gaither · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2011, 09:16:56 PM »

FWIW

IMHO, Hondaman ign is the way to go. Good service record, good warranty, reasonable price and easy to install (if I can install it, anybody can). I like mine.

Just get your points and condensers up to snuff, install a Hondaman ign and forget replacing points for a looong time (put a dab of grease on the cam occasionaly to protect the "bumper" on the points from wear).

NewOldSchool · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2011, 09:25:11 PM »

Quote from: seanbarney41 on January 18, 2011, 07:34:37 PM

Hey man, a set of points don't last forever Seems the fsm calls for at least an inspection every 1500mi. The manual will also tell you how to file them smooth, clean the contacts, set the gap, and adjust the timing. Seems a lot of guys have trouble servicing their points and just get expensive electronic ignition. A well fettled breaker point ignition is one of my favorite things about these bikes.

The points are almost new, they are gaped correctly and the timing was set 150 miles ago, I cleaned them as recommended and after inspecting them again it does look like the points for cylinders 2&3 have started to "erode" in one small area more so than the very clean 1&4 set. So I believe it is the 2&3 condenser based on all Ive heard and read. Thanks alot for all the help guys!

NewOldSchool · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2011, 10:52:49 PM »

Just found a "tune up kit" that comes with 2 condensers and new both sets of points for $22 online so I'm all set plus have spares in the even something goes wrong again.

Greggo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2011, 10:54:39 PM »

Quote from: NewOldSchool on January 18, 2011, 10:52:49 PM

Just found a "tune up kit" that comes with 2 condensers and new both sets of points for $22 online so I'm all set plus have spares in the even something goes wrong again.

Just make sure the points aren't Daichi!!

Deltarider · « **Reply #14 on:** January 18, 2011, 11:51:36 PM »

FYI, a transistor ignition like Hondaman's doesn't need the condensers at the plates. When installing a transistor ignition it's best to disconnect the standard condensers.

DYSKORD · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2011, 12:52:55 AM »

Those tune up kits are garbage. Usualy Dalichi. IME. You would do best to order from dealer. They supply TEC brand points.Save yourself the head aches.

Gaither · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2011, 07:41:12 AM »

Delta

Thanks, I had forgotten that. (I'm getting old, you know.)

Greggo · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2011, 10:54:11 AM »

Quote from: Deltarider on January 18, 2011, 11:51:36 PM

FYI, a transistor ignition like Hondaman's doesn't need the condensers at the plates. When installing a transistor ignition it's best to disconnect the standard condensers.

That's interesting, could you explain that Delta?
Thx,
Gregg

octagon · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2011, 12:39:27 PM »

i was wondering that too - so the condensers don't play a role at all with the hm ignition?

flybox1 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 19, 2011, 12:51:54 PM »

Quote from: Greggo on January 18, 2011, 10:54:39 PM

Quote from: NewOldSchool on January 18, 2011, 10:52:49 PM
Just found a "tune up kit" that comes with 2 condensers and new both sets of points for $22 online so I'm all set plus have spares in the even something goes wrong again.

Just make sure the points aren't Daichi!!

+1 on NO DAICHI!!!

my Sudco's (ND) ign tuneup kit has held up well
http://www.sudco.com/CatalogJPG/463.jpg

BobbyR · « **Reply #20 on:** January 19, 2011, 01:10:37 PM »

Quote from: BobbyR on January 18, 2011, 07:39:55 PM

I had an odd one. 2&3 would go out and come back. Turns out the wire going to the points had worn over the years at the hold down tab on the engine case.

I will reiterate, there is a cable (usually white) coming out of the engine case from the points, check that wire. The insulation can become abraded and short. Look for the simple stuff first.

Deltarider · « **Reply #21 on:** January 19, 2011, 01:36:44 PM »

A transistor ignitionmodule basically is a switch and has built in condensors. The breakerpoints now only have to deal with a very low current and don't need condensors to prevent sparking as now the module is the 'power' switch (mostly a Darlington).

The Mayor · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2011, 09:10:54 AM »

Delta,

I went with the HM setup this past spring, but didn't modify the condensors or points. I guess one idea is that if the unit were to fail, you could just unplug and keep going.
But since I'm not concerned with that, would you just simply disconnect the condensors? Anything else to be done?

Thanks

Deltarider · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2011, 11:55:55 AM »

Quote

would you just simply disconnect the condensors?

Yes.
I believe I've read a remark by Hondaman that his box might work with the plate-condensors still connected. But I personally would disconnect them.

Quote

Anything else to be done?

No.
A transistor ignition is a relative simple and cheap device that will pay for it self.

HondaMan · « **Reply #24 on:** February 21, 2011, 07:53:05 PM »

Quote from: camelman on January 18, 2011, 06:43:51 PM

I don't think it is your points. If you only get good power at high rpm, then I'd look at the condenser. Bad points are bad points at all rpm. Bad condensers first show themselves at lower rpm.

Camelman

Camelman has my vote...

zipper · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2013, 10:53:45 AM »

How did this go, was it the condensers or the points? I'm having similar problems with my bike

SouthernFriedCB · « **Reply #26 on:** September 10, 2013, 12:04:35 PM »

Had similar problem, check those plugs boots too. They wear out and you will have a murderously good time setting time etc if they are toast.

HondaMan · « **Reply #27 on:** September 10, 2013, 10:09:25 PM »

Interestingly: several of these have turned out to be bad connectors where the points plug into the main harness (at the rear top of the engine). The corrosion has let them crack on the female (bike harness) side. That's why I send out new ones with the kits, just in case.

News:

Author Topic: Points? (Read 6275 times)