Topic: fork seal question

[73nancy]

hey guys getting ready to fix my fork seal issue. i installed my new seals before no leaks untill i hauled my bike across country and over tighten them and blew fuild out of them. now the forks have very little fluid in them and can pull up on the bars and they sag back down. when i installed the all balls seals they didnt seem to have to be pressed in just slide them into place by hand and put the clip in. is it normal to beable to put them in by hand without pressing them into the fork leg? also could i just refill the forks since it has only 5 miles on the bike since the new seals? im wondering if the seals got ruined with the fuild going by them when they blew out when the bike was on the trailer. from now one im going to not tie the front down so hard and use other straps to do most of the pressure to hold the bike in place. any thoughts would be great thanks

[ekpent]

Probably a trial and error thing,as in draining and refilling them to the proper level and observing them to see if they still leak.Mine have never just slid in with no resistance per say when replacing,did use the old seal and a piece of pcv pipe to make sure they were seated. Do you remember what brand you used? I usually just go with OEM Honda on those.    Eric

[MCRider]

The "Leak Proof" brand are push ins, they advertise, and that's what i put in mine. Don't know if the All-Balls are the same, but they do exist. All balls may be rebadging the LeakProof brand.

Internal air pressure forces them out to create a seal with the leg. Could be that you are OK with the seals.

Oil does not support the weight of the bike. Picking it up and then releasing it gives you feedback on the springs. The bike should settle down into the front springs about 1.5 inches from full extension, with the rider. If more than that you need springs which is a different issue.

Cranking down hard with the tie downs could sack some otherwise borderline springs. Theoretically not, but practically if the springs are old and metal fatigued, you can sack them with over use. IMO

[73nancy]

ok that clears it up a bit.. ya they because i remember taking my old oem ones out it took quite of a bit with the clip out. these just push in by hand below the clip recess.. i just didnt want to take my forks off if i didnt have to again.. since i had to paint my upper fork tubes due to rust and pitting under the old ears.. im probally just going to refill them.. they were a tad over filled last time. the drain is on the fork like near the bottom right?

[Johnie]

Correct, drain plug is on the bottom of each fork leg. My OEM seals went in pretty hard. I used the old ones as protection as I tapped them in. I also put some fork oil on the outside to help them slide in easier.

[BobbyR]

Just as general information I got from old time wrenches and proved to be true. When you replace a leaky fork seal you must examine the fork tubes for any surface scratches, pits. The rule of thumb is if you can feel it with your fingernail, it will form a leak in some short period of time. They actually recommend that you polish the tubes when you change seals.

I used Never Leak when I changed mine, and they failed in a couple of years. I polished the forks and went OEM Honda and 5 years later no leaks.

[MCRider]

Here's the LeakProof hype:
http://www.thunderproducts.com/Leakproofforkseals.htm
6th bullet down, "push in installation"

Granted these seals are very controversial. Many say they are terrible. I've had good luck with them.

My only point being, pushin seals are available.

I googled the AllBalls Fork Seals and got some interesting hits. Seems to be as controversial as LeakProof. I vote they are the same.
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?90523-All-balls-fork-seals.....SUCK!

[Goofaroo]

Here's a crazy idea that is probably wrong.

When you compressed the forks to the point that your seals blew because of excess air pressure and then released the tie downs, it seems marginally feasible that you may have created a vacuum in the stanchions that is working against the springs. Crack the drains at the bottom loose and then snug them back down and see if all seems well again. If so, then it would probably be a good indication that the seals are still good.

[ekpent]

You also mentioned you had just 5 miles on the new seals before this problem arose. People have accidently put those in upside down before,you did put them in with the scrapers pointing down,correct.

[Bodi]

No way for vacuum in the forks. The lips will allow air to go past "backwards", the seals only hold against pressure from inside.

[Goofaroo]

No way for vacuum in the forks. The lips will allow air to go past "backwards", the seals only hold against pressure from inside.

That's kind of what I figured but I'm not familiar with the seals that he is using so I thought it might be worth a try. I've had forks that I had to bleed the air out of occasionally due to them pulling air from inside on the upstroke. It sounds to me like in this case, he either broke a spring (unlikely) or the springs are just sacked out (very likely).

[73nancy]

good information guys.. the first time i replaced the seals i did in fact put them in upside down and leaked bad.. instead of risking fliping them and reinstalled i replaced them with new the correct way.. the all balls seals are a double lip and have dont have one side is flat.. i read the instructions carefully and put them in the way they showed. as far as pits on the fork tubes i checked them doing the finger nail tech and dont have any pits where the seal rides i do have them further up above the trees. after the fluid blew out due to my over tightened straps it doesnt seem to be leaking any more out but i havent drove the bike to see either.

would you guys recomened just bitting the bullitt again and just by the oem ones and replacing them again or try and drain and refill and hope for the best. the springs are orginals as well but dont have the cash right now to put new ones in it

thanks for the help guys

[BobbyR]

good information guys.. the first time i replaced the seals i did in fact put them in upside down and leaked bad.. instead of risking fliping them and reinstalled i replaced them with new the correct way.. the all balls seals are a double lip and have dont have one side is flat.. i read the instructions carefully and put them in the way they showed. as far as pits on the fork tubes i checked them doing the finger nail tech and dont have any pits where the seal rides i do have them further up above the trees. after the fluid blew out due to my over tightened straps it doesnt seem to be leaking any more out but i havent drove the bike to see either.

would you guys recomened just bitting the bullitt again and just by the oem ones and replacing them again or try and drain and refill and hope for the best. the springs are orginals as well but dont have the cash right now to put new ones in it

thanks for the help guys

Go simple, drain and refill. Easier and cheaper than tearing the front end down. If you get a very minor weep during the season, you can replace them next winter.

[gane]

Nancy, Just in case, .. Sandcast & early K0 forks used a different sized seal than K1-K6, & the last time I looked were of unobtainium,,, if in doubt, it's a good thing to check,G

[73nancy]

how would i tell? they look to be the orginal forks on it but i guess im not 100%.. what makes the real early forka diffrent.. but im going to drain and refill with correct level and give it a whirl

[754]

Early forks have 2 mount holes for the caliper on the back of the fork, (side furthest from caliper).

 Did you measure the fork oil you put in? what fork oil did you use?

[73nancy]

ya i messed up on the measurment on the fluid but i used atf like some people on the forum say they use.