Topic: Force 15% Ehanol in Gasoline - to the detriment of ALL of US!

[Gaither]

Mick

CFC's - thanks, I couldn't think of it!

'Can't deny NZ has a skin cancer problem - I'll take your word on that regretable situation. And, I don't mean to be argumentative but I just searched "Ozone Hole" without reading any of the links there. However, at a glance on the first page there are listings that indicate the "hole" is closing - including one that indicated that it is a detremental trend [?]. (When I have time, I'm going back there and read some of 'em.)

Since the oceans of the world exude tremendous amounts of CFC's, science can't blame "us" for the "hole". Also, they haven't studied the "hole" for a long period of time and don't really know how long it has been there and why the size of it fluctuates (seems there is a lot science doesn't know). They, in their attack on freon, simply conveniently ignored the tremendous amounts of CFC's put into the atmosphere by the oceans.

[Retro Rocket]

CFCs are not naturally occurring chemicals. Frederic Swarts pioneered fluorocarbon chemistry in the late 1890s. In 1928, two scientists in the Frigidaire Division of General Motors selected CFC-12 as an ideal refrigerant for home refrigerators.

You may have CFC's mixed up with something else. The Ozone hole in Antarctica opens and closes to a degree depending on which season we are in, it is definitely real as we suffer from the overdose of UV radiation. I personally have had over 30 sun cancers either surgically removed or burnt off, we didn't know the dangers as kids and the damage is done to the skin quite early on.....

Mick

[spot45]

I do have some more info on the ethanol debate.  It seems that Nobel Prize winning idiot AL Gore actually admitted that Ethanol does nothing.  The only reason why he was in favor of it was to help furthur his own political ambitions.   Which means that he wanted the farmers votes in Iowa and all the other farm states.   As for the skin cancer debate it is a huge issue here in the states as well.

[Joel]

I'd be interested in some links to studies with physical measurements of exhaust emissions on various fuels.  The Stanford study linked in my earlier post is merely a computer simulation.

Aside from milage and replacing seals and hoses, wouldn't this allow more compression capabilities on pump gas? Eg. more compression in the motor due to a higher ignition vod.

Yes.  Ethanol is generally corrosive to rubber and cork seals. Newer vehicles use materials resistant to ethanol.  Finding replacements for older vehicles in the newer materials may be more difficult.  This paper (http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/new-fuel/files/afrw/afrw-all.pdf *LARGE* download ~33MB) found ethanol can provide ~18% more power/liter but is consumed ~15%-20% faster.  Optimizing the engine for ethanol, which would involve higher compression but I'm unsure what else, would mean approximately the same miles/gallon.