Author Topic: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.  (Read 294096 times)

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Offline Coulisnosaj

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1200 on: February 15, 2017, 12:20:11 PM »
Here is his reasoning behind selling them separately.  I'll let you decided.

"If I sold it together people would be asking just for the drive gear as that's all they need. I'm not Russ Collins selling kits and custom made parts in 1977. In 2017 is anybody selling a new RC drive kit with or without the gear? No. The idea was derived from researching the forums. I sell parts. Although Honda sold the motorcycles together I sell them in pieces. I did not base my decision on what Russ Collins did 40 years ago when the gear was available and being made. Now 40 years later the gear is unavailable, it cannot be had or feasibly made. 40 years ago one could buy just the drive gear. There are plenty of people with the distributor and a worn out drive gear. What are those people to do? So that's the reason. A man that has the drive with a worn drive gear can just buy the gear from me as Im probably one of few people in the world that has this gear for sale. If one needs this gear how are they going get it? Buy the whole assembly? That doesn't make any sense either. Other than my drive gear for sale the only option for these guys is to pay 8-10k to tool up and after a minimum of 12 are ordered the price is still $8-900 each. *Example- a board game was sold with all the pieces- look on ebay- people sell the pieces individually now as a potential buy may not need or want to pay extra the entire game as it was sold in 1977."

Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1201 on: February 15, 2017, 12:27:04 PM »
Me too, Jag. I think that's CS! Especially at $500. Rude!

RR
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Offline 754

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1202 on: February 15, 2017, 12:32:21 PM »
If its more than the market will bear..no one buys it.
 My self I would lay the distributor on its side, and build a belt drive..like Hahn and ARD did..
Or just get an ARD for 700..or less ..
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 01:41:21 PM by 754 »
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline jaguar

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1203 on: February 15, 2017, 12:33:29 PM »
Well maybe if he priced the drive sans gear at like $200.....

Like I said, I was mildly interested when he had the whole bike listed.
Sad to see it being parted out, but understand it happens.

Normally I would "bundle" the parts and shoot for a package deal and take everything.

Didn't even bother making an offer because of they style he has chosen to list them in.

I do find it odd that no one has ever found a replacement for the gear.  It isnt the whole drive even, the gear just slips on. 
I would bet anything it is an off the shelf part, but to find the actual shelf is the challenge.

If anyone does buy this set up from this clown and needs help rebuilding it, I can help.
I even have most of the needed parts "in stock"



Offline slikwilli420

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1204 on: February 15, 2017, 01:01:36 PM »
Bet one of these will fit:

http://www.cranecams.com/userfiles/288-290.pdf

Or its probably the gear from a VW which RC was known to pull parts for due to stone reliability and plentiful supply.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline jaguar

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1205 on: February 15, 2017, 01:38:50 PM »
All of it is mallory and VW parts.

The gear itself just slides onto the RC drive.


Offline gschuld

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Offline classic bike tuner

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1207 on: February 19, 2017, 03:48:19 AM »
for sale  : not used new close ratio gearset from NOVA for a honda 400 four  built in cases  but for postage can be removed 

have pictures

http://www.novaracing.co.uk/ProductHondaCB4004(400%20Four)CloseRatioGearboxConversion.html

c.b.t@outlook.com
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 04:04:55 AM by classic bike tuner »

Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1208 on: February 19, 2017, 05:22:17 AM »
How about all the way over and back around and all the way over again !!   :o :o

       Ok guy's here it goes........ First off  they would have to reverse engineer the gear + make an engineered drawing. That means i would be able to take it to any manufacturer and have the gear made. Cost..... $2,000.oo .  But after talking to them and explaining what it is for and showing them the R.C. catalog and pictures of the SORCERER dragbike they knocked the reversed engineering drawing to  $1,500.oo.   ;)    After that there's the process of finding out exactly what material the gear is made out of.  2 way's of going about that.  One is sending it off to a lab and doing all of the tests =  $ 2,000.oo   Or choosing a high grade material and running with it and saving $ 2,000.oo   Then having the material, it must be sent out to be broached and bored. Then they will cut the gear teeth, grind and polish.  Last, the gear will have to be heat treated.
    All in all this venture will not be cheap. Some major time will have to be invested to figure out what the exact price per piece would end up being. Some special tooling would have to be made to manufacture the gears which would be included in the cost ,which would be owned by the customer.  That said the customer could take the drawing and the tooling to any gear manufacture and have the gears made.  I was taken through the shops and observed all kinds of special machines in operation making some really cool pieces for the military and  Boeing aerospace .  So there ya go, now to figure out if it's worth the time and $$$$$$  to invest in this and how many people out in the cycle world would need this gear and the timing shaft.   ::) :-\ :-\

 I was just thinking......Can you imagine what the cost factor would be to have all of the pieces made for the R.C.angle drive setup ?  I can't even imagine what the larger gear that's in the housing with the special bearing would even cost !


 I guess a lot of you guy's have forgotten all of the time that i spent researching in order to have some gears made up for the R.C. Engineering gear drive. It is definitely not cheap to startup the manufacturing of the special gear as you can read above. If it was cheap or a off the shelf piece, everyone would have no problem getting a replacement. Yea a lot of guys think that the seller should sell his parts for cheap but in the rare high performance parts area, if you want really it bad before anyone else gets it you got to step up to the plate. I agree some guys are way over the top on the prices of some parts. Other than the gear problem is the rotation of the distributor or the magneto to be used in the angle drive, they have to be set in a reverse rotation ( counter clockwise ). No one makes a distributor setup for that in the VW bottom drive for the R.C. Engineering setup. Only the magnetos that are available can be setup to run in a reverse rotation.
   So there you go. Sometimes it all boils down to what someone is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept for the part. I hope everyone finds what they are looking for on the cheaper side.   ;)   PS. The post above on my research about the cost of having gears made was almost 5 years ago !!  I imagine costs have risen since then.  :-\
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 05:26:47 AM by BLUE71TURBO »
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1209 on: February 19, 2017, 05:32:13 AM »
Just a thought.....these distributors (car's) were driven off a gear machined into the cam shaft.  Has anyone looked into just cutting the gear from an old VW cam shaft and having the centre hole and keyway cut.  Likely need re-hardening after.  The rest is basic machining.
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Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
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77 CB550 Cafe build
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Offline jaguar

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1210 on: February 19, 2017, 05:36:35 AM »
I for one never said the seller should sell cheap.
Myself have gotten some very high priced for rare HiPo parts on eBay.

I do have an issue with the tactic the seller he is using and how he thinks it will maximize his profit.

Offline BPellerine

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1211 on: February 19, 2017, 10:13:21 AM »
if he sells one or the other he is left with an unusable part,dumb in my books.bill
1978 CB 750K ard and webers
another anfob

Offline 754

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1212 on: February 19, 2017, 11:36:03 AM »
Blue, I remember the discussion in the past.. What was the bestvprice you came up with?
Personally, I think they are hosing you with the reverse engineer cost, and I dont know that it is broached, I think held more like a stock advance, using pin and bolt..
 I think for drawing, its basic measuring, and hour or two tops.
They like to throw gear mumbo jumbo voodoo out there but basically it is tooth count, pitch and pressure angle... The rest is in the tables in the books, and it dont take long to figure out width and height of the tower that holds it.
 I would like to run it past ZahradKopf on Home shop Machinist Forum, I am not a member there, but70CB is.....I think he would give an honest evaluation. Or get kmb69 ,s opinion on this
 Often in industry people try to bull#$%* the average oerson because they just dont know....and they wil, take the money if you will pay it. If you can find the gear on say a cam you could cut it and save hardening by using an EDM machine.
 The best deal I saw in the last years was an auction for the RC Distributor with two different gears..and the guy said you can change the gearing by using the other..total ignorant bull#$%*..but it went went fir the going rate,and what I really believe it had was the Kawi gear and the Honda gear..so you got a working setup,and spare gear to sell.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline BPellerine

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1213 on: February 19, 2017, 12:46:22 PM »
+1 frank,I have seen gears made in the machine shop at the company where I worked,cause they need them fast,you need a shop that is sympatheic to your needs,hard to find.bill
1978 CB 750K ard and webers
another anfob

Offline kmb69

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1214 on: February 19, 2017, 01:09:52 PM »
Just a thought.....these distributors (car's) were driven off a gear machined into the cam shaft.  Has anyone looked into just cutting the gear from an old VW cam shaft and having the centre hole and keyway cut.  Likely need re-hardening after.  The rest is basic machining.

That is a 1:1 ratio being driven off the camshaft that is already 2:1 to the crank. So the drive gear has to have 1/2 as many teeth as the driven gear when geared to the crank.
Nope, I was thinking "American iron". It appears they were driven off the crank so a 2:1 relationship has to exist.

.....
Personally, I think they are hosing you with the reverse engineer cost, and I dont know that it is broached, I think held more like a stock advance, using pin and bolt..
 I think for drawing, its basic measuring, and hour or two tops.
They like to throw gear mumbo jumbo voodoo out there but basically it is tooth count, pitch and pressure angle... The rest is in the tables in the books, and it dont take long to figure out width and height of the tower that holds it.
 I would like to run it past ZahradKopf on Home shop Machinist Forum, I am not a member there, but70CB is.....I think he would give an honest evaluation. Or get kmb69 ,s opinion on this
 Often in industry people try to bull#$%* the average oerson because they just dont know....and they wil, take the money if you will pay it. If you can find the gear on say a cam you could cut it and save hardening by using an EDM machine.
.....

Frank is correct on all counts IMHO. The reverse engineering shouldn't be too involved.
Gears are generally made to standards. Should be relatively easy to come up with a 2:1 set even if you have to replace the gear on the magneto/distributor.
Chances are also pretty good the gears will already be keyed. May require some key modification to match to the magneto/distributor shafts.
The shaft for the driving gear can be made to fit whatever gear is identified. And like Frank said, using an EDM on hardened gears is relatively inexpensive.
I would speculate one could solve this scenario in the $200-$300 range - maybe less with standard components.

Off the shelf RH/LH, multi-pitch, helical gears example: http://www.wmberg.com/products/gears/helical-gears

How about a set for under $33.00? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/omx-1742303 Nevermind, it appears to be a 1:1.

Basically, all you need is a 2:1 90 degree set.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 02:00:15 PM by kmb69 »

Offline Medyo Bastos

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1215 on: February 19, 2017, 01:44:49 PM »
Maybe the tach drive on a cam? I am not where I can compare them..,


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Offline gschuld

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1216 on: February 19, 2017, 04:23:28 PM »
Unfortunately I have nothing constructive to add regarding supplying new RC distributor drive gears, other than to say that I'd be happy to help support an effort into a rational solution if one exists.  I am one of the sad souls who happens to have an RC distributor with a missing drive gear.

George

Offline Tintop

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1217 on: February 19, 2017, 04:33:45 PM »
If replacing the gear set is an option then a Cortina / Kent (Ford 1600) could supply parts.  The distributor driven gear was always a replacement part, and the cam shaft had the drive gear (which can be removed and re-machined).  I had the redundant cam shaft (1600 block) in the Lotus TC was cut down and only used to drive the distributor.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline 754

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1218 on: February 19, 2017, 05:01:10 PM »
Pics of one ? The problem is the. Gear centres would have to be the same fir a swap to work. So if gear diameters are not the same ...no dice.
 You could convert them to belt drive like an ARD but i think that means disributor pointing outward to get correct rotation.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline gschuld

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1219 on: February 20, 2017, 02:21:34 PM »
Wanted:

NOS Yoshimura 812 pistons, forged in either 10.5:1 or 12.5:1.

NOS Yoshimura Daytona cam

Thx,

George
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 02:35:54 PM by gschuld »

Offline 754

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1220 on: February 20, 2017, 02:26:29 PM »
I have seen cast Yoshi pistons..not sure if they used forged.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline gschuld

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1221 on: February 20, 2017, 02:43:48 PM »
I have seen cast Yoshi pistons..not sure if they used forged.

I have seen several sets of cast Yoshimura 812 10.5:1 pistons myself, some marked 812 and Popy, some marked 812 and the Yoshimura symbol on the right.  These were likely far more popular for the average street riding customer.

I'm assuming the racing 12.5:1 compression Yoshimura 812 and 823 pistons were forged, and I have heard there were 10.5:1 forged 812s as well.  If anyone has an old Yoshimura catalog handy, I'd like to know for sure.

I'm thinking the road racers, even the production type classes, would not have wanted to use cast pistons for racing.  I could certainly be wrong though. ???

George
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 03:43:31 PM by gschuld »

Offline gschuld

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1222 on: February 20, 2017, 05:46:36 PM »
Those Yoshimura 12.5:1 racing 812cc pistons sure appear to be cast, interesting.

George

Offline gschuld

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1223 on: February 21, 2017, 07:01:39 PM »
Well,

Just a sales report. All 3 Ebay auctions sold.

The Webers/RC manifold set went for $750 .  Single bid
The RC distributor gear went for $500.  Single bid
The RC distributor housing/wires/coil went for $918. Two bidders, the other guy went up to $917 :o

All went to the same buyer in Europe. 

Again, not my stuff, wasn't involved or consulted regarding the prices or splitting up of the Dizzy and gear.

George

Offline Camrector

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Re: Race and Performance parts for sale and wanted.
« Reply #1224 on: February 21, 2017, 07:37:26 PM »
Some one should have ponied up, bought the gear then held it at ransom!!! ;D ;D