Author Topic: '71 SL 350 performance  (Read 8100 times)

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Offline darkbane

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'71 SL 350 performance
« on: January 26, 2011, 08:03:06 PM »
I've come to the point where I'd like to start diggin into my motor and seeing if I can get a little bit more mid and top end power/speed out of it. 

At the moment, the only thing I know about the motor is that it was stock, then the PO put a PowRoll bore kit on.  I believe it was said to but it to 372cc.  I have no way of confirming this. 

As you can tell by my picture, this isn't a cafe racer, but it just doesn't seem to have the power that I thought it would.  I plan on goin through the motor and seeing what's slowing me down, but while I'm diggin into it, I would like to make modifications and/or upgrades if necessary.


I hear a lot of back and forth talk about the difference between the SL and CB engine performance, but never seem to reach an exact answer.  I have access to a '72 CL350 motor and was wondering if swapping the heads would make a difference?  If so, is it worth the effort. 

My carbs seem to be worn out and about due for replacement.  If I'm gonna spend the money, I'd rather it be on worthy upgrade.  Any thoughts. 

I'm not trying to go crazy on this, but any thoughts, or suggestions are more than welcome.
'71 SL350 Dirt Bike Bobber Project
'83 GS650G
'72 CL 350k4

Offline joesmotos

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2011, 08:48:59 PM »
Im not the CB/SL 350 expert but..the heads are different i do know that..the SL has much smaller ports..and smaller carburetors than a CB or CL..i think the valve sizes are the same tho..dont know what the differences in cams are..but if it really does have a bigger bore kit in it i dont think you could go wrong by swapping over to a CB head and carbs..the SL had slide valve carbs vs. the CB which had CV carbs..i think they were 30mm or so...if your bike has the slide valve carbs,look on the tops of them and theres a number stamped on them indicating bore size..(like 22 or 26 or 28..i want to say they were 28..)also,im pretty sure theres a difference in the clutch cover gaskets should you have to open that up for some reason,reason i mention it is that if you look close theres a main oil passageway that runs thru that cover and part of the gasket helps create a pathway for the oil to go thru(it either blocks off or opens up a passageway)..anyway..theres alot of gasket sets that say they will work on a SL350 when in fact theres a difference in those clutch cover gaskets..wouldnt want to fry the top end by installing the wrong gasket.How do i know this?My buddy has a 350 with an old Powroll 435 kit in it..he showed me all this stuff..i run a CB360(totally different from your bike tho)..course you could find yourself a decent pair of used Mikuni VM30 carbs and jet them to work too..Megacycle cams makes 2 or 3 different cams for that bike but they aint cheap..go to their website and have a peek.
Just my two cents(which is worth about .25 cents nowadays) worth...Joe

Offline mlinder

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2011, 12:54:13 PM »
I believe only one year of the SL had any differences to the CB/CL.

Anyway, headwork, cam, and carbs will get you power. The very fast race 350's make about 50 rwhp. Not easy, or cheap, to achieve.
40 rwhp, though, much cheaper and easier.

I have no idea what pistons you have, or their CR, or whatever. If they are just big bore without increased compression, the mild street performance cam and a couple of mikuni vm26s or 28s will serve you well. You do not need 32's for street use. Don't let anyone tell you different. You'll give up low end throttle response if you go bigger than the 28's.
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Offline Green550F

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2011, 03:00:41 PM »
40 rwhp??? WOW!  :o  :o
I'm impressed! I had dyno-dragged (at J&P's open house in front of a crowd) my stock CL350 cafe project at 20.5 rwhp. I figure that's close to 1 hp/cu.in. which is not shabby for stock hp numbers for any engine.

BTW, I recorded a 1/4 mile trap speed of 72mph beating out a Suzuki LS650!  ;D
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Offline RatBikeRandy

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2011, 04:53:01 PM »
No idea about the numbers, but the SL350 I had was FAST.  I'd say probably too fast for the brakes and dual-sport tires that were on it.  It was a heavy son of a gun, but it would move.  If the speedo was close to accurate (who knows) I had it close to 100 mph a few times.  Not bad for a dirt bike.

Wish I had kept it, but it was a bear to start once the engine was hot.

Offline mlinder

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2011, 05:31:49 PM »
Less than 400lbs wet isnt that heavy, really.
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Offline darkbane

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2011, 05:52:38 PM »
Thanks for your input guys, it's very helpful.  Obviously my bike isn't in it's stock form, so I'm sure my exhaust and Pod Filters aren't helping me much and the stock carbs seemed to be impossible to get fine tuned.  They seem to change their behavior every day.
I definitely want to look at my options for different carbs.  Mine are stamped with 24.  Not sure what a reasonable upgrade would be?
I couldn't imagine going 100mph on this bike.  I've gotten it to about 60mph on Lake Shore Drive and the motor was screaming.  I know my knobby tires aren't helping things either, plus it was originally sprocketed to be a dirtbike.  I also know I'm not fighting against weight.  My bike is Very lightweight.  I can easily lift it off of the ground.

Anymore input regarding a head swap would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all of the quick replies so far.
'71 SL350 Dirt Bike Bobber Project
'83 GS650G
'72 CL 350k4

Offline mlinder

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2011, 10:39:21 PM »
Thanks for your input guys, it's very helpful.  Obviously my bike isn't in it's stock form, so I'm sure my exhaust and Pod Filters aren't helping me much and the stock carbs seemed to be impossible to get fine tuned.  They seem to change their behavior every day.
I definitely want to look at my options for different carbs.  Mine are stamped with 24.  Not sure what a reasonable upgrade would be?
I couldn't imagine going 100mph on this bike.  I've gotten it to about 60mph on Lake Shore Drive and the motor was screaming.  I know my knobby tires aren't helping things either, plus it was originally sprocketed to be a dirtbike.  I also know I'm not fighting against weight.  My bike is Very lightweight.  I can easily lift it off of the ground.

Anymore input regarding a head swap would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all of the quick replies so far.

Headswap for what?

There's only one head tht fits it in the states, the cb/cl/sl head. They were all the same but for that one year, far as I now. A european cb250 head would fit, and raise compression.
Good luck getting one, I've ben trying for a year.
Again, you can have pepl do headwork for you. Cam and such would add a lo to the bike.
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2011, 02:50:50 PM »
Half-Fast.........your carbs are too small........should be 28mm or larger with your overbore. The CV type are good for the street. Look up the Ohio cafe riders group for advice........several are AHRMA racers on CB350s.
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Offline mlinder

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011, 03:55:59 PM »
Half-Fast.........your carbs are too small........should be 28mm or larger with your overbore. The CV type are good for the street. Look up the Ohio cafe riders group for advice........several are AHRMA racers on CB350s.

Honda factory race cyb350 used 31mm Keihins ;)

With headwork, cam, and a much higher redline, it needed them.

With only a moderate increase in size (an extra, what, 25cc per?) the largest you should go is the 28's. Anything bigger and you lose intake velocity at low engine speeds, which is bad for throttle response and low rpm performance.

If you are going to keep it between 8 and 11 grand all the time, like on a track, 32's are probably fine.
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Offline darkbane

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2011, 02:59:17 PM »
Upon talking to some other folks as well....I'm going to not touch the Heads and try stepping up the carbs first.  I also recently found out that I had a crack in my exhaust header.  Didn't notice because of the Exhaust wrap. 

So on my immediate list it to source some Mikuni Vm28's to swap the carbs.  I'm also looking into changing up the sprockets a little.
'71 SL350 Dirt Bike Bobber Project
'83 GS650G
'72 CL 350k4

Offline the-chauffeur

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2011, 11:11:25 AM »
I guess you already know this, but the SL engine underwent some big changes between the K0 and K1 models - it lost the electric starter, got smaller carbs and a different cam profile. The K1 ended up about 6hp down on the K0, but it made up for the loss with the weight saving from frame changes and dropping things like the starter.

As some others have mentioned, the K1's had slide carbs whereas the K0's had CV's (the slides gave better/more reliable response off-road).  IIRC the K1's generally had 28mm throats, whereas the K0's were something like 32mm, and from the microfiches, it looks like the heads were different to accommodate the different inlets.  Assuming they were, you might need to do some fabrication work to get the CV's to fit - or find yourself a decent K0 head on eBay.  Don't forget that if you get the earlier carbs, you'll probably need new cables (the throttle linkages are different) and you may also need to sod about with the air filter tubes/connectors.  Once you've got the bigger carbs on, you can look at rejetting and stuff to see if that'll give you any extra grunt.

With the exception of the camshafts (which, incidentally, changed during the K0 run - mid '69 - and then again when the bike was restyled for the K1's - mid-'70), all other top end internals between the K0 and K1's seem to be pretty much the same (valve sizes and so on) so a straight swap shouldn't be too painful.  And if you're into experimenting, I guess you could also try to find yourself a K0 cam, which IIRC should give engine performance more akin to the CB/CL's than the off-road oriented later cams.

Think that's pretty much it for the simple-ish stuff, other than electronic ignition, messing about with the engine timing and putting on some road tyres . . . BTW my K0 runs pretty well at 8-9,000rpm without sounding like I'm torturing it too much, but I wouldn't want to sit in that sort of rev range for any length of time  ;D

« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 01:10:24 PM by the-chauffeur »

Offline mlinder

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2011, 12:33:20 PM »
The cam changed on all CB/CL/SL's after, I dunno, whatever year that was, 71? '70? 69?

I dunno.

The rocker shafts were relocated as well, to give the same valve lift and such with teh different cams. (One is much larger than the other.)


But, as the guy above me said, any CB/CL/SL head should fit just fine up there, but get the whole head and valve train together from the same bike so you aren't sitting there going "Why do these valves never close all the way?" or "boy the valve duration sure is short.."
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Offline ohiocaferacer

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2011, 05:21:28 AM »
In my opionion.....I would just try and find a CB or CL engine and swap out the SL engine. You have a single down tube frame....so its an easy swap. I've had my stock CB's street bikes over 100mph without a problem.....race bikes....no clue.....tach only.

If I remember correctly.....the transmissions in the SL is different from the street versions(geared lower).....and the final drive sprocket ration is different. Probadly one of the reasons the bike feels slower.

As for the cams......the larger early cam was in all CB/CL's prior to engine #2072210....any engine number after that is the smaller cam. And as Mark indicated....you need the entire cam tower...from the head up to make the change onto a later style motor.

Offline the-chauffeur

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 10:20:50 AM »

Nice idea with the straight engine swap, but HF's bike is either a K1 or K2 with twin downtubes (look closely - they don't show up so well in the top photo).

« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 10:22:31 AM by the-chauffeur »

Offline mlinder

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2011, 10:54:32 AM »
Also, he's got bigger pistons in the machine already, do may as well just do a top end swap.
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Offline ohiocaferacer

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Re: '71 SL 350 performance
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2011, 11:02:16 AM »
Sorry didnt catch the twin tubes....still should be an easy swap. However he wants to do it.

Options are endless on these 350s......hell.....I even heard people are putting modern day inverted sportbike front ends on these things!!! ;D ;D