Author Topic: Low RPM clicking???  (Read 4566 times)

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Offline quietlikeachurch

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Re: Low RPM clicking???
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2006, 11:45:58 PM »
This might be way out there but when I switched helmets on my bike I was scared to the bone.  Once you get used to the engine sounds inside one helmet any other helmet makes the bike sound a little bit different.  I rode mine hard for about two years inside a full-face and then switched to a half-helmet and started to notice alot of crazy clicks/clacks/etc., that I had never heard before.  After checking the valve clearances and timing, and trying out all octanes in case of "pinging" (and re-syncing the carbs about 6 times), I realized that I was just hearing alot more valve clatter and intake noise than before.  After a few years of flawless running (in less-than optimal conditions) the engine is the last thing I expect to break down.  Unless I hear severe CLACKING or see my oil light, it's fine.  These engines don't have their "bulletproof" reputation for nothing.

-Ian

P.S. - "hcritz"... - Don't be afraid of revs; yesterday I rode 250 miles with the engine at 5K-6K most of the time, and it seems to be running smoother than ever!  Is that a Porsche Spyder or a Corvair Spyder??
'77 750F

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Low RPM clicking???
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2006, 12:05:09 AM »
Pinging due to incorrect ignition timing is probably the culprit, but, well, it's an F2, so it could be a number of things specific to the beautiful, but fragile nature of the model.

One of the F2/F3's problems was loose valve guides moving in the head casting, or excessive wear of the valve/valve guide,  mushooming of the valve stem tips, and of course the biggie was premature cam chain and tensioner failure due to the added stresses on the valve train brought about the "lumpier" camshaft and much stiffer springs. In all, noises from the cylinder head on an F2 are common, and eventually will prove fatal.

BTW, no one mentioned the possibility of piston slap under load, another common problem, particularly on high mileage bikes, where someone has fitted new rings onto worn pistons, in worn cylinders. It may not blow smoke, and the compression can be within specs, but that won't stop the pistons from rattling around inside the cylinders under load, particularly when the engine is still cool. Cheers, Terry. ;D 
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Low RPM clicking???
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2006, 01:18:01 AM »
Seems to me and engine that is pinging will show very light color spark plug deposits, and possibly a white center electrode insulator. Combustion temps will be high and should, at least, keep the plugs very clean.  Possibly the outer ring won't have the desired blackness, either.

It is common for many people used to autos that cruise at low RPMs in overdrive (making about 10-20HP in cruise), to be uncomfortable using smaller displacement engines in a Higher RPM mode.  One symptom is that people "lug" the motors, asking for max power and torque well below an RPM that the camshaft profile works efficiently.  Many auto engines rarely operate above 4500 RPM.  And, their cams are profiled to supply best power and/or torque below that RPM. Those engines have no hope of operating at 9000 RPM with their current cams and valve train.  Conversely the cam in the SOHC4 is optimized to achieve best power in the upper half of the RPM range.  The result is relatively poor volumetric efficiency at lower RPMs.  Simply twisting the throttle at low RPM is lugging the engine until you get into the upper 2/3rds of the RPM range when the cam begins to operate in an efficient manner for this engine's breathing characteristics.  With these engines you aren't being kind to them by keeping their RPMs low.  They were designed to be Reved up and operate better, with less strain on them in the upper RPM bands.  If the noise that the SOHC4 makes upsets you, perhaps a quieter intake and exhaust setup would be more to your liking.  Or, even another choice of motorcycles that are designed to cruise at low RPMs.
 Lugging the engine, particularly with lean mixtures or glowing embers in the combustion chamber, can lead to pinging and even detonation.  This can lead to some pretty severe premature mechanical wear.

Perhaps if you think about percentage of power it will help assuage the cringing effect the tach needle has on you?  The power band starts about 1/3 up from the range of the band. The Cb550, for example, has an 8000 RPM rev range From 1000 to 9200. 1/3 of that is 3700.  That's only 30% power.  And, come to think of it, 3500 is about the lowest I like to see on the tach while driving about in city traffic.  When I want response, 4000 and lower gears for even more Rs is what I like to see.  Cruising at 5000 is only 50% power or half capacity for the motor.  Heck, that's just loafing!

The cam grinds on these bikes are to make horsepower at higher RPMS. In doing so, they sacrifice torque at lower RPMS.  They are designed to be reved up and are happiest when they are doing what they are supposed to do.  None of my 550s have complained about this treatment.  Could the 750s be more dainty or fragile?  Seems unlikely.

As to the clicking noise, who knows what the printed word click means relative to an actual engine noise.  When I put the big Vetter on a Cb550 years ago, I investigated the new noises I heard until I took it back off and discovered the engine then sounded just like it did before the addition.  Engine noises were bouncing off the fairing right into my face in the quiet air pocket behind the windshield.  Still, I knew the plug conditions hadn't changed, the valves were set right, and the ign timing was spot on.  There's a lot of metal moving about at 4000 RPM.  Noises are going to happen.

Cheers,


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline byidesign

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Re: Low RPM clicking???
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2006, 06:24:41 AM »
Don't want to be out in left field here, felt the need to mention this one.
  Are you getting enough oil up to all the lobes,
    and rockers? I had one oil hole that started to plug up
    by#2 and I got ticking noises from it{first sign}{cam sometimes starts to
      change colour, or in bad cases turn blue}
      I  had to clean them out, maybe worth a visual check...
         Hope it helps
                 Bruce
82CB650SC,80CM400

Offline hcritz

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Re: Low RPM clicking???
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2006, 06:33:49 AM »
Hey quiet...
Yeah...I know...just takes a while to get used to running that many rpm for distance...Bike doesn't seem to mind as much as I do!
Maybe I should just disconect the tach cable!<G>
Going to take my first long trip on the bike next weekend...about 300 miles each way...weather permitting...should be interesting!
As for Spyders...I have had one of each...still have my 64 vair...I've had it too long to part company...it has pretty reliably transported me for about 380,000 miles now...Really nice with the top down!!! The Vair is a lot more reliable and less fuss than the Porsche!
All it ask for is good fuel and frequent oil changes! The Porsche fell apart in record time...Why can't the Germans make decent plastic!


Offline Lumbee

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Re: Low RPM clicking???
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2006, 06:43:35 AM »
...bydesign...are you mad...certainly u'r not suggesting I pull the motor on the this beast!!!   ;D  Nah...I hear ya...isn't restricted oil flow always our worst fear?  In a prefect world anytime I get a new bike I'd pull the motor and check out the inerts...but in my world I usually ride for a season to gauge perfomace before deciding on what motor work I do.  For what its worth when I set the valve clearance, the insides of the caps looked oily.   :-\

...while Terry is right about the F2's and there poor valve guides, the bike only has 17K miles on it, so I'm hoping I can get another 10K before I started to worry about the thing swallowing a valve.  I had planned on riding it for the summer as is, then pulling the motor and cleaning up the top end in the Fall.
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