Author Topic: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor  (Read 10913 times)

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2011, 05:05:13 AM »
You're saying my cylinders are from a sandcast? I really don't know where they came from. I did a lot of swapping around in the 70s and that era is a bit foggy, if you know what I mean.   ;)

They have holes drilled in the fins all over and i never knew where that came from either, I didn't do it. My bike is a K2 but the only things I can honestly say is still K2 is the frame and the crankcases.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2011, 01:22:38 AM »
Yes they are early barrels, you can tell that by looking at the fins they are rough and thicker and on the underside that mates with the cases they have that rectangular parallelagram oilway thats the give away, the very early barrels do not have the extra 6mm bolt in the front centre of the cyl head that started about 1027000 or so, Its not hard to ad one.. a good score. Tom
'59 T120.,'70 T120R Had one new.,'69 CB750 Oz Sandy Ruby Red.,'69 CB750 Oz Sandy Blue Green.,'70 CB750 K0 Candy Gold.,'71 CB750 K1 Valley Green I bought new.,'71 CB750 K1 Candy Garnet Brown.,'76 Rickman Honda CR750 R.C. Eng Cobra Powered. Two CB750 Choppers a Amen Saviour and a a Santee rigid arm Softail. A ‘72 Z1 Jaffa, and lotsa fun Honda Monkey bikes.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2011, 04:04:33 AM »
You never know Ron, those barrels might have come from an old race bike, one of Pops Yoshimura's tricks was to bore holes in the fins, which increased the surface area for better cooling. I bought an old Suzuki GS1000S race bike for 500 bucks "sight unseen" a few years ago, when it arrived, it looked like it'd been pulled out of a drain and leaned up against a fence (in long grass) for a few more years. I was pretty disappointed,   but the engine turned over, at least.

When I eventually stripped the engine I first found a set of mint Yoshimura race cams, and with the head off, a set of Yosh 1085cc pistons, and I found that the fins on the barrels had also been drilled, and of course everything that could fall off or unwind had been safety wired. I eventually sold the cams, pistons and barrels for about 3 times what I paid for the bike, to a well heeled American on EBay. I think it's also got a welded and balanced crank in there too (roller bearing crank) but I haven't stripped the cases to see if the gearbox and clutch have been modded.

I've drifted a little off topic, (as I'm often wont to do) but anyway, well done mate, it's looking sweet! Cheers, Terry. ;D   
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2011, 05:11:46 AM »
Tom: Not a recent score. Those were the jugs on the original Phaedrus built in 1980. It was an 888 also. I had the jugs re sleeved and re bored for the current manifestation.

IIRC, I had a sandcast engine way back when which I used as 750cc race bike. I must have pulled the jugs for use on the streetbike.

Terry; cool story about the GS. we are purveyors of "motorcycle archeology". Old stuff keeps bubbling up to the surface.
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Offline scondon

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2011, 01:38:41 PM »
Stepped away for a bit. Back now ;)

My cylinder sleeve groove looks exactly like your pics, MCRider. I had a bit of fun trying to stubbornly shove the stock 0-rings in before I posted here. I ended up putting some Permatex Copper high temp gasket sealant in the grooves. When applied with the nozzle tip included with the tube I was able to put a nice small bead in the groove and call it done. It was either that, or nothing so I said "what the heck, couldn't hurt."

Cylinders and head are now on, and it's to the business of identifying the cam. The cam sprocket is one of those heavy duty solid ones, but is not "slotted" so I just bolted it in and set up the degree wheel and dial indicator to get some readings. Thankfully Satanic Mechanic has a lot of cam info from back in the day for reference. Here's what I got which leads me to believe that it's a Stage 2 Yoshimura cam that is 11 degrees advanced in it's current position. Yikes! Time to get a slotted sprocket ;)

My readings at .040" lift

In 34btc/42abc          Lift: 382       Duration: 256

ex 59bbc/14atc          Lift: 342       Duration: 253


I went through the different cam specs looking for ones with similar lift, and Yoshimura's were the closest match. The duration figures of the stage 2 match mine, and when I get the slotted sprocket I hope to "square up" the cam, and see if I can get the open/close numbers to match the specs. Anyone see any flaw in this logic? Yoshimura cam specs are here:

http://www.satanicmechanic.org/yoshicam.shtml
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2011, 02:50:58 PM »
 Sean...the lobe centers with those #'s are kinda whack. Intake is 94LC.....Exhaust 112.5LC. I'd try for a more even split.
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Offline scondon

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2011, 03:16:04 PM »
Exactly my thought, Mike. This experience brought to mind going through the WebCam headache years back where the measured numbers weren't anywhere near the timing card info. When I called WebCam the guy said that he wished that they didn't include any information at all with the cams so that people would just bolt them in and call it good, and quit giving them such grief over the timing cards.

So... by following the advice of a major cam manufacturer I now have a pretty decent cam in crap position, haha. Ordered slotted sprocket from Dynoman which should be here by the weekend :)

In other news, some Crank/rod bearings just showed up from servicehonda and are destined for the 1000cc APE piston motor. Race is on now to see which gets finished first, the 890 or the 1000, woohoo!
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2011, 03:37:30 PM »
Good to see you posting more often Scon ;), you've been in the dark to long. ;)

Sam. ;)
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Offline scondon

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2011, 03:48:43 PM »
Good to be back twirling wrenches, Sam. A rather topsy-turvy couple of years that found me unemployed, in school, employed again, unemployed again, and so on and on....

Still unemployed, but with a nice garage in the suburbs and an understanding mate who doesn't give me too much grief for being on my arse most of the day, haha.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2011, 02:32:41 AM »
Tom: Not a recent score. Those were the jugs on the original Phaedrus built in 1980. It was an 888 also. I had the jugs re sleeved and re bored for the current manifestation.

IIRC, I had a sandcast engine way back when which I used as 750cc race bike. I must have pulled the jugs for use on the streetbike.

Terry; cool story about the GS. we are purveyors of "motorcycle archeology". Old stuff keeps bubbling up to the surface.

I forgot to mention about the drillings on the early barrels they had grey rubber dampning rubbers fitted between the fins these were aprox 12mm or 1/2 inch dia with nimples top and bottom that locate in the drilled holes, Tom
'59 T120.,'70 T120R Had one new.,'69 CB750 Oz Sandy Ruby Red.,'69 CB750 Oz Sandy Blue Green.,'70 CB750 K0 Candy Gold.,'71 CB750 K1 Valley Green I bought new.,'71 CB750 K1 Candy Garnet Brown.,'76 Rickman Honda CR750 R.C. Eng Cobra Powered. Two CB750 Choppers a Amen Saviour and a a Santee rigid arm Softail. A ‘72 Z1 Jaffa, and lotsa fun Honda Monkey bikes.

Offline scondon

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2011, 09:57:04 AM »
Dynoman to the rescue! Slotted sprocket arrived two days after I ordered it. Cam is now locked in with readings of:

In 25/53      Lobe center 104.0      Lift  382

Ex 51.5/23   Lobe center 104.25    Lift  340

Now, best I can come up with is that this is the Yoshimura Stage 2 cam that I posted a link to earlier in this thread. The spec for that cam shows a .006 valve lash. Sounds sloppy loose to me, but that is what I have set them to.

The same spec sheet says "add .002 to valve lash for racing applications." It states this for all Yoshimura cams, not just the one I think I have. Soooooo.......Even if I have mis-identified this cam, and it is supposed to run with a tighter .004 valve lash, I should be ok with .006 as long as I flog the living crap out of it, right?  :-\
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2011, 11:03:42 AM »
Well that's what you normally do ain't it. ;D ;D ;D ;D sorry Scon, had to be said ;)

Sam. ;)
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2011, 01:42:53 PM »
Dynoman to the rescue! Slotted sprocket arrived two days after I ordered it. Cam is now locked in with readings of:

In 25/53      Lobe center 104.0      Lift  382

Ex 51.5/23   Lobe center 104.25    Lift  340

Now, best I can come up with is that this is the Yoshimura Stage 2 cam that I posted a link to earlier in this thread. The spec for that cam shows a .006 valve lash. Sounds sloppy loose to me, but that is what I have set them to.

The same spec sheet says "add .002 to valve lash for racing applications." It states this for all Yoshimura cams, not just the one I think I have. Soooooo.......Even if I have mis-identified this cam, and it is supposed to run with a tighter .004 valve lash, I should be ok with .006 as long as I flog the living crap out of it, right?  :-\

Hey Sean, is that .006" PLUS .002" for "racing applications"? .008" total? Geez the rattle from my rockers with .005" clearance on my Megacycle 125/75 cam drives me insane, you'll need earplugs! ;D
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Offline scondon

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2011, 05:13:22 PM »
TERRY!!!!!!! Bugger mate, I keep staring at that stubby ignition shaft on my bench thinking "Ship it...SHIP IT!!!"  ;) :D :D

.006 and not a smidge more for me. I've never heard of a lash so sloppy, but hey, I'll try anything once.
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Offline 754

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2011, 08:59:47 PM »
I run 12 thou on a RC 315, ran it for decades..
 People remarked on the sound of the engine (that they liked it), but I dont ever recall anyone saying the valves sounded noisy.. in fact they are usually surpised to find out they have that much clearance..
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2011, 09:57:27 PM »
Sean,

Somewhere on here I have posted Yoshimura Daytona cam specs. Gallery perhaps. An actual picture of the card that came with mine.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 09:59:41 PM by Jerry Rxman Griffin »
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Offline scondon

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2011, 11:10:51 AM »
Sean,

Somewhere on here I have posted Yoshimura Daytona cam specs. Gallery perhaps. An actual picture of the card that came with mine.

I'll look for it, Jerry. The link I posted shows that the Stage 2 cam I think I have is same as Daytona Race except with less lift. They seem similar to the 125-65 Megacycle I run, and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

I run 12 thou on a RC 315, ran it for decades..
 People remarked on the sound of the engine (that they liked it), but I dont ever recall anyone saying the valves sounded noisy.. in fact they are usually surpised to find out they have that much clearance..

That's good to hear. I'm actually curious to see if longer time on the seat helps keep things cool.
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Offline 754

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2011, 11:56:03 AM »
 I like to think a bit of clearance gives it oil, on the rocker pad/lobe and screw..
 At .003, I cant see an excess of oil moving there.
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Offline scondon

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2011, 09:06:54 PM »
Yeehaw! The Sumbich runs! For some reason I'm always surprised when a engine I've put together doesn't explode or belch oil all over the floor. Now to work on the front end and suspension so I can make the trip to AHRMA and the SOHC World Tour in SoCal.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 09:12:52 PM by scondon »
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2011, 10:03:41 AM »
Wooohooooooo  ;D  Glad YOUR'S does anyway  ;)
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2011, 11:23:04 AM »
Yeehaw! The Sumbich runs! For some reason I'm always surprised when a engine I've put together doesn't explode or belch oil all over the floor. Now to work on the front end and suspension so I can make the trip to AHRMA and the SOHC World Tour in SoCal.
Nice
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Offline scondon

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2011, 12:21:18 PM »
Wooohooooooo  ;D  Glad YOUR'S does anyway  ;)

Well.....at least it was a glorious ride around the block, Jerry. Cam tower/rockers for 1&2 is bone dry, and the motor's coming back out. I do believe that this engine is feeling sympathetic pains, and does not want to get on the road unless you do too.....

.......so get crackin'!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2011, 03:52:59 PM »
Hope yours is OK. I tried calling CycleX today assuming they may be in on Saturday. No luck. I'm thinking their 915 kit uses the correct cylinders. Their site says it drops right into the cases without cutting the cases. If no luck by Monday I'll have LA Sleeves add mine to the batch for Dynoman. Hoping Big Jay can cut me in line  ;)  ;)  ;) He's a busy man.

I had hoped to complete the engine then build the bike but I'd better find other things that I can do in the mean time. Build the rear wheel! Front done.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2011, 04:16:05 PM »
Wooohooooooo  ;D  Glad YOUR'S does anyway  ;)

Well.....at least it was a glorious ride around the block, Jerry. Cam tower/rockers for 1&2 is bone dry, and the motor's coming back out. I do believe that this engine is feeling sympathetic pains, and does not want to get on the road unless you do too.....

.......so get crackin'!!!!! ;D ;D ;D

Oooher, that's not good Sean, did it do any damage? I destroyed the top end on my first K1 in 1981 when a bead of silicon sealant (no, I didn't use the schidt, a "professional" mechanic at a bike shop did) blocked off both oil jets in the head, wrecked the cam, cam towers, and all of the rockers. I hope yours is ok!  ;D
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Cylinder sleeve 0-rings on 890cc motor
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2011, 04:59:21 PM »
I wouldn't wish that top end damage on anyone. But if its got to happen, I like it when only one side gets plugged up and you twist the cam in half.  Now you've got a real souvenir.
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