Author Topic: CB77F (Read 4399 times)

Ted Nomura · « **Reply #25 on:** April 06, 2006, 02:30:26 PM »

Quote from: bill440cars on April 05, 2006, 01:37:57 PM

Ted, have you seen other photos of it, because from what I've seen, it looks more like the frame has been modified in front to come down to just above the oil filter. Ever thing else looks like CB77.
If you've got a photo or some photos maybe you'll have better success with posting them
than I have had trying to post the one I have. But really, the fenders, wheels, seat, gastank,
side covers, even the aluminum foot rest brackets are there. Like I say, There is a frame
tube that comes down from the upper front part of the frame and down to just above the
oil filter. Your talk about test bike reminds me, while I was stationed in Japan, I think my
buddy and I saw a Kawasaki 500 MachIII. We were out at a dirt track at Misawa Air Force
base, that I was stationed at, and a small japanese van pulled into the pit area, a guy got
out, went around to the back of the van, opened the doors, a bike fired up inside the van,
come out of the van down a board, made a few passes around the track (flew around the
track) actually, drove back up into the van and they left. When we saw the bike, it looked
like the engine was a little wider than usual. About 2 or 3 later, the Kaw. 500 Mach III 3
cylinder was introduced. I can't help but feel like that was one that was stripped down.
Later on, Bill

The only photo I seen, which I can't find it at this moment, only shows the side view and very hard to see the details. Your photo in different angle, is much better and in color! From your photo, I can easily see that the front frame doesn't wrap the oil filter like the standard CB350F frame. The frame does look like a modified CB77. Know what happened to the bike and is there other different angle shots? Looks like a pretty cool bike to convert. The photo I've seen had standard looking chrome 4 into 2 exhaust with CB360 type angled mufflers.
Wish I was there to see the Kawasaki 500 prototype, Bill! I've been facinated with prototypes eversince I joined USAF in 1976 and was assigned at Edwards AFB, working on YF-15 and YA-10 prototypes. I've became very sensitive in noticing the differences between prototypes and productions versions since then.
In August 1980 issue of Cycle Guide, they did a very nice article about me with my prototype jet engine motorcycle design. I had many others, some ended up showing in my own "Angels 750" motorcycle comicbook series recently.

Ted Nomura · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2006, 02:40:52 PM »

Quote from: Philly550K1 on April 06, 2006, 12:01:10 PM

i saw this at white rose last year......

The two photos I've seen don't seem like the same bike. Aside from different mufflers, the engines have different clutch housing. Which one is real? One with black exhausts looks like a CB500 engine, if so, I need to find an engineless CB77 so I can stuff my spare CB550 engine! It still looks cool.

The original Honda CB750 "Proof-of Concept" demonstrator bike in 1968 (shown in Cycle World December 1968 issue) used modified CB450 frame, first they tried the CB350F type single front down tube with loop at the bottom for oil filter but the bike flexed too much so they cut the downframe right at the exhaust area and welded a double cradle frame with a T-bar, Honda's first for production bike, and proved so successful that they kept it as is for production version. Kawasaki Z1 used the simpler design. But the original "oil filter wrap" design was good enough for CB350 Four. I guess the modified CB77/400 demonstrator flexed too much. I wonder what happened to the real CB750 engine mounted CB450? The early prototype CB750 engine had displacement of less than 700cc. I believe the first version was 652cc. Honda used the same exact bore and stroke dimensions of their CB250 twin (CB350 twin's little cousin) in 1968 to produce the original CB500 Four of 1971.

Philly550K1 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2006, 03:25:46 PM »

Quote from: Ted Nomura on April 06, 2006, 02:40:52 PM

Quote from: Philly550K1 on April 06, 2006, 12:01:10 PM
i saw this at white rose last year......

The two photos I've seen don't seem like the same bike. Aside from different mufflers, the engines have different clutch housing. Which one is real? One with black exhausts looks like a CB500 engine, if so, I need to find an engineless CB77 so I can stuff my spare CB550 engine! It still looks cool.

they're both "real", and distinct/different; i think the one malcolm posted has a 350 and the one i posted has a 400, but don't quote me on that (it's not a 500, you can quote me there if you want). somebody on this list may know the 2nd bike -- it was just in my folder of "white rose '05" photos.....

bill440cars · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2006, 05:22:21 PM »

The one that Malcolm posted was for me and was said to be a 400. Also, I just checked parts books and that one is supposed to be the 400, while the one Philly550K1 posted is the 350. I also happen to have a 76' CB400F and the clutch cover (the whole engine actually) looks exactly like mine.
I do totally agree with Philly550K on the fact that it's not a 500 but, I do wonder if it would be a possibility with some extra bracing maybe? I keep having vieions but, I don't won't it to the the last bike that I ride. I have an extra CB77 frame and an extra CB500K engine. On the other hand, I also have an extra CL450 DOHC engine but, that wouldn't be as awesome looking and probably not as dangerous. I appreciate the efforts on this and I'll still take any and all info or photos. I feel prettygood that there were at least 2 of these things (350 or 400, it's still quite interesting to me. Later on, Bill

bill440cars · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2006, 07:07:42 PM »

HondaMan, If you drop the early CB/CL350 transinto the CB77 case, wouldn't you
need the clutch also? I know you said the shift drum an forks but, I got to wondering
about the clutch, will the CB77 clutch assy fit, or do you need the 350 clutch too? Any idea
just how many years the "early trans" was made? I found 71' & 72' yr models on ebay and
shift drums w/ forks for those models. I know you're trying to recall things that happened
years ago and I appreciate all the info you've provided. I'm going to keep on digging and see
if I can put something unique together and I'll let you and Sam know what's going on as I
can. Thanks again. Later on, Bill

ohiocaferacer · « **Reply #30 on:** April 10, 2006, 04:34:40 AM »

Here are some pics of the tranny from the 1970 CB350(K2 model) we just rebuilt for the CB350RR project bike......maybe these will help.

http://www.ohiocaferacers.com/P8060022-150.jpg

http://www.ohiocaferacers.com/P8060023-150.jpg

http://www.ohiocaferacers.com/P8060024-150.jpg

http://www.ohiocaferacers.com/P8060026-150.jpg

Wish I could add more.....but dont know a whole lot about the superhawks.......

Later,
Greg

bill440cars · « **Reply #31 on:** April 14, 2006, 09:42:12 PM »

Greg, i sent you a pm. later on, Bill

Ted Nomura · « **Reply #32 on:** April 17, 2006, 02:52:30 PM »

Quote from: Philly550K1 on April 06, 2006, 03:25:46 PM

Quote from: Ted Nomura on April 06, 2006, 02:40:52 PM
Quote from: Philly550K1 on April 06, 2006, 12:01:10 PM
i saw this at white rose last year......

The two photos I've seen don't seem like the same bike. Aside from different mufflers, the engines have different clutch housing. Which one is real? One with black exhausts looks like a CB500 engine, if so, I need to find an engineless CB77 so I can stuff my spare CB550 engine! It still looks cool.

they're both "real", and distinct/different; i think the one malcolm posted has a 350 and the one i posted has a 400, but don't quote me on that (it's not a 500, you can quote me there if you want). somebody on this list may know the 2nd bike -- it was just in my folder of "white rose '05" photos.....

You're right. I don't have CB350F so I couldn't tell and I haven't looked at my CB500 closely lately. I knew that there were two bikes. Is the CB400F version 398cc or 408cc?

ohiocaferacer · « **Reply #33 on:** August 11, 2006, 07:23:26 AM »

This was seen at VMD 2006 at Mid-Ohio.......found this on someone elses website. A friend told me he saw it up at VMD 2006 and the guy who owned it, knew nothing about it......just found it one day and bought it. What a find!!!

http://lizardking.8k.com/images/honda.jpg

Later,
Greg

bill440cars · « **Reply #34 on:** August 11, 2006, 08:29:25 AM »

Quote from: ohiocaferacer on August 11, 2006, 07:23:26 AM

This was seen at VMD 2006 at Mid-Ohio.......found this on someone elses website. A friend told me he saw it up at VMD 2006 and the guy who owned it, knew nothing about it......just found it one day and bought it. What a find!!!

http://lizardking.8k.com/images/honda.jpg

Later,
Greg

Whoa, can you believe it? Sure would like to know some details on it. Shame the guy who got it doesn't know the history on it. Thanks for posting it Greg, good to see that there is an example of it still around. Since I've posted this, I've seen at least 2 different ones. This is killing me. I'd like to know all about how it rides and handles along with what it took to build and all.

Later on, Bill

Ted Nomura · « **Reply #35 on:** August 13, 2006, 10:37:51 AM »

Quote from: ohiocaferacer on August 11, 2006, 07:23:26 AM

This was seen at VMD 2006 at Mid-Ohio.......found this on someone elses website. A friend told me he saw it up at VMD 2006 and the guy who owned it, knew nothing about it......just found it one day and bought it. What a find!!!

http://lizardking.8k.com/images/honda.jpg

Later,
Greg

Very cool! What's the engine size?

HondaMan · « **Reply #36 on:** August 13, 2006, 07:02:10 PM »

Looks like a 350-4 or 400-4. Nice work!

Ted Nomura · « **Reply #37 on:** July 25, 2008, 01:24:55 PM »

Hey, how is that CB77 Four doing? I hope it's still running. That bike should be in part of honda history.

bill440cars · « **Reply #38 on:** July 25, 2008, 05:38:54 PM »

Quote from: Ted Nomura on July 25, 2008, 01:24:55 PM

Hey, how is that CB77 Four doing? I hope it's still running. That bike should be in part of honda history.

Hey Ted. No clue about the CB77F (as I call it). As you can tell by the date of the last reply before yours, it's been kinda hibernating for a spell. I'd be interested in pictures and details myself, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. $:-\$

Ted Nomura · « **Reply #39 on:** August 01, 2008, 01:37:33 PM »

That bike need to be found and saved. It's one of the most rarest of all SOHC Fours, more than the sandcast CB750s. Although the Honda themselves probably call the original bike as the CB400F prototype. Honda tested their bigger SOHC Four engine (which became the CB750) on a modified CB450 frame in 1967-68.
There was another locally converted 400F in scrambler version that was on sale in California sometime back, the owner called it CL400F. The modifications looked simple but effective. I even did a fictional article about a scambler version of the CB750 over 10 years ago in one of the motorcycle related comics I did. It was naturally dabbed the CL750. It was influenced by a photo of a CB750 based dirtbike I saw in one of the magazines back during the early 1970s. The owner looked like he used some SL350 parts. I even considered converting my CB550 (which don't have stock pipes) into a SL350 lookalike dirtbike.

HondaMan · « **Reply #40 on:** August 02, 2008, 09:10:11 AM »

Quote from: Ted Nomura on August 01, 2008, 01:37:33 PM

That bike need to be found and saved. It's one of the most rarest of all SOHC Fours, more than the sandcast CB750s. Although the Honda themselves probably call the original bike as the CB400F prototype. Honda tested their bigger SOHC Four engine (which became the CB750) on a modified CB450 frame in 1967-68.
There was another locally converted 400F in scrambler version that was on sale in California sometime back, the owner called it CL400F. The modifications looked simple but effective. I even did a fictional article about a scambler version of the CB750 over 10 years ago in one of the motorcycle related comics I did. It was naturally dabbed the CL750. It was influenced by a photo of a CB750 based dirtbike I saw in one of the magazines back during the early 1970s. The owner looked like he used some SL350 parts. I even considered converting my CB550 (which don't have stock pipes) into a SL350 lookalike dirtbike.

WOW! Ted, I remember something like this: what was it published in? I think we had it posted on the wall in the Brown's Sport Cycle shop, after someone noticed the "SL341" pipe series. Someone wrote above it, "Are you man enough to ride the SL750?"

malcolmgb · « **Reply #41 on:** August 02, 2008, 11:17:34 AM »

here's a 400 scrambler from Europe
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=25797.0

Ted Nomura · « **Reply #42 on:** August 04, 2008, 03:14:13 PM »

That's a good CB400F converted dirt bike. Since the engine is sitting high, must be a bear to handle with that long front forks. I remember the original 1972 Kawasaki S2 handled like a good 125 because the 350cc three cylinder triple two cycle engine sat rather high but it had 18" wheels front and back. I wonder if anybody made a dirt bike version of that.
The CB400F converted scrambler I saw had what looks like two sets of CL175 pipes mounted on each side of the bike, rather like the CB450D except with four pipes.

supersix · « **Reply #43 on:** August 31, 2008, 01:51:25 PM »

Hi all,

I am just about to start restoring my CB72 which has been in storage for the last 20 years and read with interest the posts regarding the CB/CL350 5 speed gearbox conversion. I wonder if anyone has anymore information since the last post regarding which years, model numbers etc will fit and whether any other modifications are required.
Thanks,
Mick

bill440cars · « **Reply #44 on:** August 31, 2008, 05:57:16 PM »

Quote from: supersix on August 31, 2008, 01:51:25 PM

Hi all,

I am just about to start restoring my CB72 which has been in storage for the last 20 years and read with interest the posts regarding the CB/CL350 5 speed gearbox conversion. I wonder if anyone has anymore information since the last post regarding which years, model numbers etc will fit and whether any other modifications are required.
Thanks,
Mick

Hey Mick. No more info just yet. I've got a trans from a 68' 350 Honda (that 1st year run of the 350 trans, will drop right in and, as soon as I get the chance, I'll proceed with the swap) I'll post the results. THAT"S the key thing. There were changes made to the trans, after 68, that would make it harder to do and I don't know if it could be accomplished even with work. Hope you have patience, cause I'm dealing with a serious Family Situation presently and have not even looked at a motorcycle (not one that I have anyway) for a spell.
Take care, Bill

HondaMan · « **Reply #45 on:** September 01, 2008, 07:53:55 AM »

Quote from: supersix on August 31, 2008, 01:51:25 PM

Hi all,

I am just about to start restoring my CB72 which has been in storage for the last 20 years and read with interest the posts regarding the CB/CL350 5 speed gearbox conversion. I wonder if anyone has anymore information since the last post regarding which years, model numbers etc will fit and whether any other modifications are required.
Thanks,
Mick

Supersix:
I remember doing this conversion, back in 1970 and 1971. Problem is, I kept no notes and took no pictures back then, and I've been unable to remember very many details about it, other than that the primary drive ratio comes out pretty low. This was fine for the roadracing we were all doing then, because the racing Hawks were all set up for 10,000 RPM operation, but on the street they got pretty hot unless you could use real small rear sprockets and large front sprockets on the drive chain. That transmission must come from a first-year 350 (later called the "K0" version) because there were spacers added between gears 2 & 3 later, then the gears themselves were changed, to improve the sticky shifting problems the early 350 suffered. This change made the tranny shafts too long to fit the Hawks, afterward.

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to help more than this: I've been teasing poor Bill440 with it for a year... $:-\$

bill440cars · « **Reply #46 on:** September 01, 2008, 04:06:48 PM »

Quote from: HondaMan on September 01, 2008, 07:53:55 AM

Quote from: supersix on August 31, 2008, 01:51:25 PM
Hi all,

I am just about to start restoring my CB72 which has been in storage for the last 20 years and read with interest the posts regarding the CB/CL350 5 speed gearbox conversion. I wonder if anyone has anymore information since the last post regarding which years, model numbers etc will fit and whether any other modifications are required.
Thanks,
Mick
Supersix:
I remember doing this conversion, back in 1970 and 1971. Problem is, I kept no notes and took no pictures back then, and I've been unable to remember very many details about it, other than that the primary drive ratio comes out pretty low. This was fine for the roadracing we were all doing then, because the racing Hawks were all set up for 10,000 RPM operation, but on the street they got pretty hot unless you could use real small real sprockets and large front sprockets on the drive chain. That transmission must come from a first-year 350 (later called the "K0" version) because there were spacers added between gears 2 & 3 later, then the gears themselves were changed, to improve the sticky shifting problems the early 350 suffered. This change made the tranny shafts too long to fit the Hawks, afterward.

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to help more than this: I've been teasing poor Bill440 with it for a year... $:-\$

Oh that's all right Mark.

When I get the opportunity to settle down, after this situation concerning my Dad and his welfare, get some things caught up at home that have been neglected with my going up and down the road a bunch and can just generally unwind, I'll see what I can do about looking into getting the 68' 350 5sp trans into the Super Hawk case and report the results of my efforts.

okie · « **Reply #47 on:** September 14, 2008, 06:02:12 PM »

It's been a really boring Sunday. Wife's out of town. Nothing on TV. I have been trying to figure out my next project. I started playing with PaintShop Pro and couldn't come up with anything exciting. Then I remembered this thread. Just how much is TOO much?

bill440cars · « **Reply #48 on:** September 14, 2008, 08:49:59 PM »

Quote from: okie on September 14, 2008, 06:02:12 PM

It's been a really boring Sunday. Wife's out of town. Nothing on TV. I have been trying to figure out my next project. I started playing with PaintShop Pro and couldn't come up with anything exciting. Then I remembered this thread. Just how much is TOO much?

ALL RIGHT OKIE!!!!! I'm liking the looks of that one!

So, when ya gonna build it?

News:

Author Topic: CB77F (Read 4399 times)

supersix

okie