Author Topic: Anyone else have chipping issues with VHT engine paint? (Read 58774 times)

timdhawk · « **on:** February 03, 2011, 05:34:37 PM »

I swear to God I'm about ready to get hair plugs just so I can rip my hair out over this. I have tried VHT engine paint 2-3 times on my current case - even bead blasted them clean AGAIN after they were already painted just to make sure I did the prep right. I have also tried it on shock bodies with the same results. CHIPPING!!!! When I tighten bolts - it chips! If I look at it hard enough, it chips. If I sneeze hard enough, it chips!!

I glass bead blasted, solvent soaked, soap and water scrubbed, acetone wiped, and tac clothed it. I've tried it with VHT engine primer and with out the primer... all witrh the same results - CHIPPING!!!
Chipping from the slightest tool drop, tap or hit. During assembly, just from spinning the case around on the engine stand the cam chain made multiple chips in the top of the case. The damn engine is black and not even in the bike yet. Its gonna look like a f*$king dalmation paint scheme after the first 100 miles.

I've called VHT, they even sent me a couple cans for free.

So what the hell did i do wrong?

DarcyCB400F · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2011, 06:03:09 PM »

That sucks!

There are two ways to have paint adhesion... chemical and/or mechanical. Since bead blasting would take care of the mechanical issue, you could have a chemical issue. This can happen when you have foriegn matter between the paint and the surface like cloth fiber or residue from a cleaner. Acetone, solvent soaking etc "may" be the issue. Clean and dry is always best.

Also, Aluminum is a very hard (if not impossible) to paint as it oxidizes rapidly. This oxidization will prevent paints from sticking.

My guess is that VHT is not to your standard. Aresol cans cannot/do not have an activator which makes paint very strong and resistant to abrasion and chemicals.

I would suggest a catalyzed system that your local paint and body shop supply store would have. Follow their instructions to the letter with no shortcuts!

This in my opinion is your only chance that may not work perfectly either... sorry!

Good luck!

gsnorcal · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2011, 06:32:34 PM »

I'm curious since I am considering using that VHT paint myself.

You didn't mention if you cured it per their instructions (heat in oven)?

Also, did you use their own stripper/prep product before the primer?

Just curious if you followed their system "to the letter". If so, tell us, so that we all know.

Thanks,
Dave

fmctm1sw · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2011, 06:38:37 PM »

Quote from: gsnorcal on February 03, 2011, 06:32:34 PM

I'm curious since I am considering using that VHT paint myself.

You didn't mention if you cured it per their instructions (heat in oven)?

Thanks,
Dave

That's kind of why I opted for POR-15's engine paint. I have no report on durability yet though... http://www.por15.com/Data%20Sheets/engine%20enamel%20directions.pdf

DYSKORD · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2011, 07:44:06 PM »

Quote from: timdhawk on February 03, 2011, 05:34:37 PM

I swear to God I'm about ready to get hair plugs just so I can rip my hair out over this. I have tried VHT engine paint 2-3 times on my current case - even bead blasted them clean AGAIN after they were already painted just to make sure I did the prep right. I have also tried it on shock bodies with the same results. CHIPPING!!!! When I tighten bolts - it chips! If I look at it hard enough, it chips. If I sneeze hard enough, it chips!!

I glass bead blasted, solvent soaked, soap and water scrubbed, acetone wiped, and tac clothed it. I've tried it with VHT engine primer and with out the primer... all witrh the same results - CHIPPING!!!
Chipping from the slightest tool drop, tap or hit. During assembly, just from spinning the case around on the engine stand the cam chain made multiple chips in the top of the case. The damn engine is black and not even in the bike yet. Its gonna look like a f*$king dalmation paint scheme after the first 100 miles.

I've called VHT, they even sent me a couple cans for free.

So what the hell did i do wrong?

+1
dropped a socket on a side cover and you guessed it. Cured in oven and all.

UK Pete · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2011, 11:49:40 PM »

Quote from: fmctm1sw on February 03, 2011, 06:38:37 PM

Quote from: gsnorcal on February 03, 2011, 06:32:34 PM
I'm curious since I am considering using that VHT paint myself.

You didn't mention if you cured it per their instructions (heat in oven)?

Thanks,
Dave

That's kind of why I opted for POR-15's engine paint. I have no report on durability yet though... http://www.por15.com/Data%20Sheets/engine%20enamel%20directions.pdf

I have also used Por15 on my 750F2, so far its he best engine paint i have come across
Pete

Freaky1 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2011, 03:34:13 AM »

This is good to know as I am preparing to strip and paint the engine soon and I had planned on going with VHT flame proof. I'm not sure if that's what you guys were using but I'm not sure I want to invest the time and money without some confidence. I painted my engine last spring when I had it out and I used grill paint, I was not expecting it to last but the first drop of gas and wow it went to crap.
Correct me if I'm wrong but based on the instruction link and the web site, do you apply POR 15 with a brush?

wildcatmahone · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2011, 06:34:12 AM »

Well VHT is #$%*ty paint sorry but that's the truth any 2 part catalyzed paint will run circles around the old enamels. Helps it you lay down some epoxy primer on that aluminum as well maybe you wanna step back and rethink your painting plans. Do it once and do it right.

Kong · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2011, 09:55:28 AM »

I have not found a singly high temperature catalyzed paint, and I have been looking. When it comes to VHT paints (not the brand, the type) it all seems to be rattle can. As far as POR goes, I don't trust any of their products myself, but I can tell you that Duplicolor paints are just as bad as your report VHT brand paint to be - which shouldn't come as any great surprise because they are both Sherwin Williams brands.

Just giving it a little thought there seems to be one basic problem with painting aluminum parts that will get hot. There are paints that supposedly will work, but the primer doesn't seem to be up to the task. In any other aluminum parts I've ever painted it was necessary to first use a zinc oxide primer, but to the best of my knowledge that stuff will not hold up to high temperatures. Same thing goes for using a straight up epoxy primer - heat will kill it. So basically what you're asking the high temp paint to do is stick directly to oxidized aluminum. There will be no chemical reaction to the surface (oxides are the most stable of compounds) even if you waste your money with "etch" primers. And that, it seems to me, is the state of affairs.

But then there is always power coating. It has been my impression that conventional power coating has a top end temperature limitation of 400 degrees (F) - but then there are other coatings if you can find someone who can apply them.

wildcatmahone · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2011, 10:13:17 AM »

I'm not sure who their supplier is but Eastwood sells a line of high-temp engine paint that can be used with a urethane activator.

timdhawk · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2011, 10:28:19 AM »

One of the times I did cure it in the oven - and it still chips.

As far as following the prep instructions to a "T", no I did not use VHT's brand of "cleaner". Most of those products are just re-badged acteones or other "cleaners" anyway. no need to dump the extra cash for a "name".

Short of that, I really can't believe it would have been any of my pre-clean solvent. Its water based anyway and would have come off in the soap and water wash afterwards. I did wash them with soap and water more than once, and did not wait a long time before painting.

I guess VHT just sucks monkey balls!

Elan · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2011, 10:45:25 AM »

I think no matter what the brand, if its in a rattle can, its gonna act like rattle can, no matter the smoke the manufacturer blows.

I just painted my engine with the satin black, baked it, and iv'e gotten a few chips already. It should look great when i start riding with my chopped front fender. $:-\$

But i will say its probably the most durable rattlecan i've used.

Kong · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2011, 11:29:23 AM »

Quote from: timdhawk on February 04, 2011, 10:28:19 AM

I guess VHT just sucks monkey balls!

If I suspected with any certainty it would do that I'd buy the stuff by the gallons.

ohiocaferacer · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2011, 11:52:23 AM »

Something you may want to consider.....not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet.......try and paint as thin a finished layer of paint on the motor as possible.

I've painted several motors over the years with various HT spray paints....baked and non-baked. Layers of thick paint will chip very easy.....thin not so much. And as always with the spray paints(rattlecan).....light mist coats work best for me.

UK Pete · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2011, 11:56:06 AM »

Por15 heat resistant engine enamel can be sprayed when thinned with there own thinners , it has the toughest finish of any paint i have used over the years, i cant comment on how it holds up over time, but if you take a look at my rebuild thread you can see the results from spraying it, i also used it on my calipers and mastercylinders as it is resistant to brake fluid
Pete

nickandkristy02 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2011, 12:47:20 PM »

if you have tried it twice and it is still chipping why would you try it again???

mlinder · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2011, 01:03:29 PM »

I've only painted one engine. Got some rattlecan stuff from Z1.

Doesn't chip at all... only did the most rudimentary clean up on the surface: sanding and alcohol.

Didn't use a primer, did maybe 3 coats of the stuff.

mlinder · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2011, 01:06:54 PM »

I think it was this:
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1752

DYSKORD · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2011, 02:53:23 PM »

Quote from: mlinder on February 04, 2011, 01:06:54 PM

I think it was this:
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1752

Cool, thanks for that

tweakin · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2011, 02:56:04 PM »

Man, that sucks. I have had great results with VHT paint, two separate builds. I follow the directions and put on light layers of paint then bake.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2011, 03:01:58 PM »

You can also get high temp powder coats, they are very resistant and you have to hit it with a hammer to chip it....
I painted my Boldor 900's engine with VHT and it worked very well, no chips. I heated the engine with a fan forced heater before painting and got an excellent finish.....No baking...

Mick

camelman · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2011, 06:42:04 PM »

I've had great success with VHT paint too. Make sure you clean off all the oils before you paint, and use a primer. You probably have to accept a little chipping wherever a bolt head contacts the paint as it is tightened, but nothing aside from that.

One other thought, be careful with paint strippers. If it isn't aluminum (aircraft) paint stripper, then it will leave a heavy oxidation coat on the aluminum that the paint will have trouble sticking to.

Camelman

xedge4lifex · « **Reply #22 on:** February 04, 2011, 07:29:39 PM »

BUMMER

ive been bead blasting cases and painting them for a year. as soon as they are out of the cabinet and the hardware/plugs are out, i just hit it with air for about ten minutes in every nook and cranny, mask and paint. using vht and the prestigious harley brand paint, which will make any joker look like a decent painter.

good luck

dave500 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2011, 07:43:30 PM »

i used vht"universal aluminium"on bead blasted cases and its great,i didnt bake them,just about a week of drying then engine temp did the rest,its not been harmed by a minor fuel leaking or chipping,it washes up well if i degrease the engine and seems impervious,are you painting in a cold climate maybe?

Freaky1 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2011, 04:05:37 AM »

With everything I've read here I'm still on the fence!

My plan was to strip the entire thing down, parts and paint, and use the VHT primer and flame proof paint. I had read on the VHT site that there is no need to bake between coats and that doing this could effect the adhesion of the new coat. Also I find camelman's addition interesting, about using aluminum stripper. I am by no means an experienced painter but I do know that 98% of the job is prep, could there be something there?

I have a good powder coating guy who did my frame the first time (I can't wait to see his face when I bring it back to him!) along with my calipers and trees, I think I'll stop by his place next week and get his thoughts too.

News:

Author Topic: Anyone else have chipping issues with VHT engine paint? (Read 58774 times)

gsnorcal