Author Topic: So I went to change my shifter seal... (Read 3295 times)

csendker · « **on:** March 30, 2006, 07:32:25 PM »

...and I found this. A big, goopy mess. I'm tired of the incessent dripping, so the new seal came in and I opened it up for a change-out. Is there anything noticible that I should be concerned with other than a blown seal? What's that round thing with splines-of-sorts lying in the cover - a hunk of the old seal? What's the best method of cleaning this mess up? Spray with some of that purple de-greaser stuff (which I have lying around)? It's getting late and I have to do something if I want to ride tomorrow...

csendker · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:06:00 PM »

Update. Massive cleaning effort has yielded sight of the old seal, I think. Now to figure out how to get the damn thing out.

csendker · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:12:46 PM »

Ummm. Dumb oil seal question. I assume the side with the groove faces the engine (inside?) and the 'flush' side faces out?

csendker · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:30:27 PM »

GAAAAA! How the hell do I get the old one out??? It's hard as a rock and it ain't budging!?!

csendker · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:55:06 PM »

Is it possible the old seal had some metal in it, or am I digging into and destroying something that I shouldn't be? I checked the exploded diagram and there's nothing else there except the seal. I can't get a grip, or even cut the damn thing as I seem to be hitting some sort of metal buried within the seal???

seaweb11 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2006, 09:01:06 PM »

You seem all alone here. What a drag, I've never done one so I can't be any help.
Waiting for some wiz to get on board here.

Good luck with it..

P.S. What does the manual say, mine is lost right now.

csendker · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2006, 09:02:55 PM »

Major league alone. The FAQ says:

"4. Using needlenose pliers or a similar tool, try to grab the old O-ring shaped Oil Seal and pull it out from it's insert on the side of crankcase body. Do not scrape or damage the seal insert area. Slide the Oil Seal outwards along the gearchange shaft to remove it."

The new seal is all rubber, but the old one seems to have a metal washer-type thing imbedded in it, or it's really, really, really hard.

csendker · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2006, 09:27:07 PM »

Fffffffffffffffffffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

That, gentlemen, is the sound of a victory beer. Oil seal successfully changed out. An hour and a half to get the old one out. And, no internal metal anythng, just hard as a freakin' rock. However, maybe we should add to the FAQ that explains how this is to be done, that as soon as the old one comes out, a bunch of oil starts to ooze out all over the place. Obvious development maybe, but I had lost sight of potential side issues in my battle with the old one. I did find that in a panic to install the new one, an old set of handlebars works perfectly as a tool to seat the new seal. We shall see tomorrow if the dripping has stopped.

bryanj · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2006, 05:37:22 AM »

If it dont change the oil pump cover "O" ring, trouble is you cant get one from Honda (but you can from me!)

csendker · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2006, 05:49:44 AM »

Wohoo! I parked in the same spot as yesterday.

3/30: nasty oil spot
3/31: clean as a whistle!

oldbiker · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2006, 06:19:06 AM »

congratulations csendker, it was quite a job but you have the satisfaction of saving quite a few dollars and learning a bit more about the best bikes going.

upperlake04 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2006, 06:20:52 AM »

attaboy csendker - another successful self-help story. just what did you do to it and with what tools for that hour and a half?

csendker · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2006, 07:09:01 AM »

It degraded into a rather barbaric experience as the gumption began to fail and the anger rose. I tried:

-grabbing it with a needlenose - nothing to grab onto (too hard)
-prying with a small, skinny screwdriver - no leverage
-cutting out with a knife - too damn hard
(now it gets bararic...)
-lots of snarling & swearing (I didn't expect this to work, but it sure felt good)
-I eyed up the hammer, but thought better of the situation and moved it far, far away
-tried driving a drywall screw into it and yanking - never got a good bite
-finally I cut away any soft material (just a little bit against the shaft) and jammed a larger screwdriver in and pryed it out. I was as careful as possible to not scratch anything throughout the whole process.

The old one is hard enough that it seems to be made out of bakelite. The only plyable part was just the tip of the lip against the shaft, and probably only then because of the constant lubrication of leaking oil...

But yes, it was a good night because I finally did something beyond cosmetic. Now I need some recommendations on a good hand cleanser.

upperlake04 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2006, 07:37:33 AM »

that wasn't so tough

its sooo easy to learn vicariously - thanks for sharing that, also on my list..

petersan · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2006, 07:38:36 AM »

Sorry this was so difficult - and wish I could have responded earlier.

I changed mine on my 550 a year ago. I had a thick gauge wire availabe (thinner than a wire hanger) I had poked a hole in the oil seal when trying a needle nose and screwdriver - made a barb or hook with the wire - worked the blunt end into that hole and it grabbed and came out.

I had the same luck up till that point - I know your pain.

csendker · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2006, 07:49:12 AM »

I forgot that I tried that one too. I used a 6-penny nail with a barb bent into the end. Couldn't poke through - it was too hard and there wasn't enough soft stuff to squeeze it through the annular space. I tried again with a 4-penny and no luck. Maybe a longer device would have helped, better handling, but probably not. This seal was toast, I mean really, really hard. The whole casing behind the sprocket was completely full of crap. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the original one.

petersan · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2006, 07:53:02 AM »

Yeah, 30 year old rubber - don't hold up so well. I wonder what kind of life they expected to get out of them back then?

gregimotis · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2006, 08:40:00 AM »

Sorry I missed the ordeal - I got mine by carefully drilling holes and inserting clotheshanger wire bent to hook.

My biggest problem was inserting the new seal. The case would cut the rubber as I inserted it; so I hit the area wiith a heat gun first, and then lubed the seal with a film of dish soap. I wish I'd thought of the handlebar, instead I used a block of wood and a rubber mallet.

Sure is nice not leaving a signature of oil everywhere I go.

csendker · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:22:28 AM »

I don't need to mark my territory, my dog does that with much expertise. No more drips, but unfortunately, somewhere during the cleanup - scooping blade-fulls of crap out with a big screwdriver - I must have stepped on some gunk. My wife called earlier, and apparently I tracked it all through the house - spot, spot, spot...I guess I can add a rug cleaning to the procedure list for me. It's becoming an expensive little seal.

Mine was self-lubing with the oil seepage, so it went in easy. I was just lucky with the handlebar idea, it was puking oil and the bars were just sitting there because, of course, I never put them away after the swap. Necessity is the mother of ingenuity.

TwoTired · « **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:53:25 AM »

The seal changing proceedure has been posted many times on this site. Did you try a search?

The seal has a steel ring embeded into it with a cross section "L" shape.

I just pierce that steel ring slighty inward from the outer edge with a small blade, long handle, pointy screw driver and pry it out after removing the front sprocket for access.

I've seen the effects of prior inept attempts to chisel out that seal, severely marking the case and shaft to the point where no seal would ever work again. Eventually, I cured it with some JB weld in the crevasses left behind.

Glad you figured it out without resorting to over-extreme measures.

Cheers,

Chris Liston · « **Reply #20 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:56:57 AM »

I second TwoTired, the best way to get the seal out is with a long very skinny flat head screwdriver. tap it into the seal with a hammer (tap is the key here) and just twist the old seal out.

lrutt · « **Reply #21 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:36:11 AM »

FYI, in the future, a good method for removal of old seals like that is to poke a small hole in then screw a sheet metal screw in. You can then grab the head of the screw and pull it out. This works at least 90% of the time for me.

Sorry I didn't see this post earlier.

csendker · « **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2006, 02:08:38 PM »

OK, it's daytime and I can see and think better. I think I was way too tired last night, but it was the only time available. Damn, there is some metal in the old seal, and I just checked a new one (I ordered 2...) and it has some also. I'm not sure how I missed that on the new one I put in last night. Anyway, I was working from the FAQ regarding changing the 550 oil seal. Everything worked OK except the extraction part; otherwise it would have taken a half hour or so to do top to bottom. I'm thinking that I may have missed a key step in the process:

Quote

after removing the front sprocket for access

Assess was a #$%* with the sprocket still on. I considered taking it off, but I didn't want to snowball out of control that late at night and end up tearing the whole thing apart. I ended up prying it out with a screwdriver like the conses shows, albeit taking the long road to get there.

News:

Author Topic: So I went to change my shifter seal... (Read 3295 times)

upperlake04

upperlake04