Topic: Toyota Findings, Left-Foot Braking, and Driver's Ed.

[Bob Wessner]

I'm sure most have heard the latest results of the Toyota braking problem investigation. I'm not sure this played a role at all, but years ago, when schools could still afford driver ed. classes, my daughter was doing some practice driving with me in the passenger seat. I noticed when she was coming to a light, the car braked but she never moved her right foot. It became evident she was braking with her left foot. It seems they were "teaching" this technique in driver ed. I told her this was not a good idea and suggested she learn to use her right foot. It insures you are not braking AND accelerating at the same time in a panic stop. I told her if her driver ed. teacher had a problem with this to give me a call.

Just curious, anyone else encounter this? I'm not sure it played a part in any of Toyota's problems (didn't seem to be a problem with other manufacturers, so not likely).

[Skunk Stripe]

I have noticed a lot of older people do this, at least in my state. But then back then, driving tests amounted to starting the car and driving forward without hitting anything.

[bwaller]

Now that you mention it Bob I have a friend (my age) that I notice always left foot braked and with the right still on the throttle. One of the only people I ever saw do it. I actually took drivers ed. in high school & that wasn't taught.

[Gordon]

This was definitely not taught when my older brother, older sister and I went through driver's ed in the mid 80's through early 90's.  

I think a bigger issue is when some people accidentally hit the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal, and then panic and just continue to mash on the accelerator still thinking that it's the brake.  From what I read this was suspected as the cause in at least a few of the infamous Toyota wrecks that were initially blamed on the manufacturer.  

[MCRider]

The problem with Toyota claiming the left foot braking reason, is that it assumes that people who drive that way only have Toyotas.

Left foot braking should be spread realtively evenly over the consumer base. So other cars would have that "problem" as well. Seems to me...

I do agree its not good to drive that way. The few times i catch myself doing it I am pushing both pedals at the same time.

My wife drives a bus and even though they are taught right foot only, that leg and hip get overworked, and the left is brought into play.

[Gordon]

The problem with Toyota claiming the left foot braking reason, is that it assumes that people who drive that way only have Toyotas.

Left foot braking should be spread realtively evenly over the consumer base. So other cars would have that "problem" as well. Seems to me...

It does happen with other cars all the time, but it's not typically "newsworthy".  It's just that while there was a documented issue with the gas pedal on the Toyota getting stuck on the floor mat, along with a possible "drive by wire" problem, the other unrelated wrecks caused by simple driver error were all lumped in with the manufacturer-caused problems because it made for a better news story, and because the people who caused their own wrecks by mashing on the gas pedal had somebody else they could believably put the blame on.  Who wants to admit, or would even believe that they wrecked their own car because they mistook the gas pedal for the brake?  

When it happens in a car that hasn't recently been in the news for possible stuck accelerator issues you rarely hear about it.    

[MCRider]

The problem with Toyota claiming the left foot braking reason, is that it assumes that people who drive that way only have Toyotas.

Left foot braking should be spread realtively evenly over the consumer base. So other cars would have that "problem" as well. Seems to me...

It does happen with other cars all the time, but it's not typically "newsworthy".  It's just that while there was a documented issue with the gas pedal on the Toyota getting stuck on the floor mat, along with a possible "drive by wire" problem, the other unrelated wrecks caused by simple driver error were all lumped in with the manufacturer-caused problems because it made for a better news story, and because the people who caused their own wrecks by mashing on the gas pedal had somebody else they could believably put the blame on.  Who wants to admit, or would even believe that they wrecked their own car because they mistook the gas pedal for the brake?  

When it happens in a car that hasn't recently been in the news for possible stuck accelerator issues you rarely hear about it.    

Yes I think what you say is true. My point still being that since it is an across the board phenomenon, Toyota can't use it for an excuse. Something specific to them is the real issue. But they will use it and I don't blame them, as the situation is becoming a real issue for them and they will try to survive however they can.

[axehole54]

i have a habit of driving automatics with both feet partly because my left foot needs to be doing something and partly because lve driven so many pos cars that had to have the pedal feathered to keep them running i also am well versed in the heel/toe method but i agree left foot braking is a potential bad habit

[72 yellow]

I learned to drive with my folk's cars.  They both had manual transmissions, so left foot was clutch only.  My drivers ed was in the mid 60's and some of the cars also had manual shift.  So I have no problem.  My daughter took driver's ed in the mid 90's and she was taught right foot gas and brake, left foot clutch or just leave it on the floor.  
I always wondered why driver error is rarely mentioned (probably easier to blame something that can't talk and say what really happened).  Try as the government may you can't idiot-proof a car or anything else.  Look at all the changes to cars, anti-lock brakes,  stability control, traction control, and the fools still end up upside down in the median.  And since the era of no matter what you do, it's not really your fault, this stuff will continue to happen
I used to work for a company that did police car conversions.  I had to take one of the Crown Vics to a Ford dealer.  While I was waiting, a very angry customer and his wife came storming in.  He started screaming that he had paid for a tune-up and other work and the van would not go faster than 50mph.  The service advisor offered to go with him and find the problem.  The wife stayed behind and continued to complain.  Upon their return, the husband hurried in, told his wife "Let's go",  she asked about the problem and how the dealership was going to fix it,  He hurried her out the door and they left.  The service advisor laughingly said there was carpeting, a floor mat and a rubber mat on the floor under the accelerator.  He said he removed the items, took the guy for a ride on the freeway.  When he hit 90mph, he said the customer was screaming for him to slow down.

[ev0lve]

I say we ban automatics - and no flappy paddle shifting either.

You want to heal/toe on a public street? - you'd better have a good reason - like being 17

[axehole54]

I say we ban automatics - and no flappy paddle shifting either.

You want to heal/toe on a public street? - you'd better have a good reason - like being 17

you know to be honest sometimes my brain forgets the last ten years happened and that sorta thing occurs

[Killer Canary]

Were standard tranny Toyotas in the suspect group? I've never had a more competent vehicle in my life.

[333]

I left foot brake in only one situation.  On any really steep hill where there's a stop at or near the top.  Mainly because my pedals aren't good for heel and toe.

Maybe 10 years ago, this same sort of thing happened(sudden acceleration) with Jeep Cherokees.  It was determined that the pedals were justified a bit to the left(from the drivers perspective).

That phrase, "heel and toe", remind me SO much of my first car.

[Steve F]

I heard on the news the other night that Toyota installed an electronic thingy that will slow the engine anytime the brake pedal is touched even though you have the accelerator pedal mashed to the floor.

[Retro Rocket]

I always left foot brake in an Automatic, always have and to think everyone will "panic" and hit both is wrong although i admit it will happen some times {never happened to me}. To suggest that left foot braking is dangerous is crap because that would insinuate that manual drivers would be prone to push in the clutch and accelerate or push the gas pedal at the same time, or clutch and brake at the same time , which is rubbish. the majority of people have a lot less control over a vehicle than they think and thats the problem......

Mick

[seaweb11]

Whine whine, when I was a kid, the accelerator was fishing line and hand operated through a hole in the dash

On a serious note. I ride/drive behind people all the time riding their brakes. Humorous looking when they are going up a good hill with the brakes on.
 Only time I used left foot brake was Kart racing, but I don't see it as a good habit on the road.

My comments about driver training are perhaps a bit dated for relevant content

[dave500]

I say we ban automatics - and no flappy paddle shifting either.

You want to heal/toe on a public street? - you'd better have a good reason - like being 17

i heel/toe trucks with roadrangers decending a hill,this is a constant mesh eaton fuller.

[fmctm1sw]

I'm sure most have heard the latest results of the Toyota braking problem investigation.

Hooray!  Maybe the value of my car will go back up!   

[Retro Rocket]

I say we ban automatics - and no flappy paddle shifting either.

You want to heal/toe on a public street? - you'd better have a good reason - like being 17

i heel/toe trucks with roadrangers decending a hill,this is a constant mesh eaton fuller.

It takes far more coordination to ride a bike than drive a car, teaching people to drive properly would be the most effective way to avoid a lot of stupid accidents. Dave, i heal and toe in my cars as well, depends on what i am doing, i also had to heel and toe my backhoe or it wouldn't go down gears going down hill which could be rather scary.....

Mick

[Spanner 1]

Seaweb +1.... often seen people going uphill on the Interstate @ 70 mph and suddenly their brakelights come on/flash.... left foot on the brake pedal........ thats not how you drive, but add it to texting and other distractions and wrong practises on the roads...... shucks 

[Retro Rocket]

Some of this thread has me baffled, you can use your left foot on a clutch but not on the brake? Sorry but that makes no sense. I agree Spanner, you shouldn't leave your left foot on the brake pedal, nor the right for that matter, but why is it wrong to brake with your left foot, most car racers if not all use this method and as long as you are adept at it it is fine.... If you can't left foot brake then what are you doing riding a bike, left foot gear change really isn't that hard...

Mick

[ev0lve]

Some of this thread has me baffled, you can use your left foot on a clutch but not on the brake? Sorry but that makes no sense.
Mick

I think it mostly has to do with folks who can't quite work out how to get one foot to not do the same thing as the other in an emergency - so the safest thing for non-race car drivers is to train themselves to not do it by keeping their freaking left foot on the floor board - especially in an automatic.

Once I got over the initial thrill of getting my license there was very little opportunity to legitimately heel/toe for gear changes on public streets.

That and Rockford turns. I really, really wish that was a required daily driving skill  

[azuredesign]

Some of this thread has me baffled, you can use your left foot on a clutch but not on the brake? Sorry but that makes no sense.
Mick

I think it mostly has to do with folks who can't quite work out how to get one foot to not do the same thing as the other in an emergency - so the safest thing for non-race car drivers is to train themselves to not do it by keeping they're freaking left foot on the floor board - especially in an automatic.

Once I got over the initial thrill of getting my license there was very little opportunity to legitimately heel/toe for gear changes on public streets.

That and Rockford turns. I really, really wish that was a required daily driving skill 

Ah Rockford turns and 180s! Only practiced with rental and lease cars. We used to call them Riddies and DRs, depending on whether you were shifting from drive to reverse or vice versa while making the turn. Probably at least as bad as standing on the brake with the left foot and flooring the accelerator before letting go the brake. I wouldn't mind being 17 again for a couple of days!

[Roach]

in b.c when you take your drivers test they will automaticaly fail you if you use your left foot on the brake .

ps mt Tacoma is the best truck i have ever had they hold there value

[axehole54]

Some of this thread has me baffled, you can use your left foot on a clutch but not on the brake? Sorry but that makes no sense.
Mick

I think it mostly has to do with folks who can't quite work out how to get one foot to not do the same thing as the other in an emergency - so the safest thing for non-race car drivers is to train themselves to not do it by keeping they're freaking left foot on the floor board - especially in an automatic.

Once I got over the initial thrill of getting my license there was very little opportunity to legitimately heel/toe for gear changes on public streets.

That and Rockford turns. I really, really wish that was a required daily driving skill 

Ah Rockford turns and 180s! Only practiced with rental and lease cars. We used to call them Riddies and DRs, depending on whether you were shifting from drive to reverse or vice versa while making the turn. Probably at least as bad as standing on the brake with the left foot and flooring the accelerator before letting go the brake. I wouldn't mind being 17 again for a couple of days!

snow and ice make for good playing grounds if you REALLY need to get it out I still occasionally pull a rockford for convenience and safety I mean you gotta stay in practice, never know when you'll need it