Topic: Toyota Findings, Left-Foot Braking, and Driver's Ed.

[fmctm1sw]

I learned the left foor was for the clutch of a manual transmission automobile.  I actually have an old drivers ed textbok here, I'll look at it later..

[Frankencake]

Some of this thread has me baffled, you can use your left foot on a clutch but not on the brake? Sorry but that makes no sense. I agree Spanner, you shouldn't leave your left foot on the brake pedal, nor the right for that matter, but why is it wrong to brake with your left foot, most car racers if not all use this method and as long as you are adept at it it is fine.... If you can't left foot brake then what are you doing riding a bike, left foot gear change really isn't that hard...

Mick

Here it is Mick, this is what happens.  When one of us Americans (the ones without a clue) get behind the wheel and use our left foot to brake, it works fine.  If we ride the brake we burn up the pads and pay to get them replaced or have them covered under warranty.  But here's the rub. When one engages in this practice and they don't have the ability to not panic in an extreme situation then they step down with both feet; one on the gas and one on the brake.  Opening the throttle body dumps all of the vacuum out of the intake manifold as well as the brake booster and the brakes don't work as well as they would if there were some vacuum present.  Then said driver hits someone and sues the car company for faulty brakes because they don't understand what happened. 
             
Professional drivers train themselve to do "heel to toe" or left foot braking.  They use the engine compression to their advantage.  The average #$%* doesn't know these thing and gets into trouble. 

That is cupcake theory and I'm sticking to it. 


 

[Gordon]

And, due to the fact that the brake lights in most cars come on at the slightest touch of the pedal, if the driver rests their left foot even a tiny bit on the pedal it will activate the lights.  This causes the people behind them to have no idea if or when they're actually braking.  I'm not saying all "left foot brakers" do this, just the inattentive, inconsiderate ones.

[Bob Wessner]

I see this a lot and have always assumed they are left foot brakers. Maybe it could be dubbed "The Toyota Syndrome." 

[Retro Rocket]

And, due to the fact that the brake lights in most cars come on at the slightest touch of the pedal, if the driver rests their left foot even a tiny bit on the pedal it will activate the lights.  This causes the people behind them to have no idea if or when they're actually braking.  I'm not saying all "left foot brakers" do this, just the inattentive, inconsiderate ones.

I agree, you shouldn't rest your foot on the brake pedal or the clutch for that matter,i don't know about the left hand drive cars but here the cars have a foot rest next to the clutch. I still see no problem with left foot braking if you know what you are doing.....

Mick

[seaweb11]

And, due to the fact that the brake lights in most cars come on at the slightest touch of the pedal, if the driver rests their left foot even a tiny bit on the pedal it will activate the lights.  This causes the people behind them to have no idea if or when they're actually braking.  I'm not saying all "left foot brakers" do this, just the inattentive, inconsiderate ones.

I agree, you shouldn't rest your foot on the brake pedal or the clutch for that matter,i don't know about the left hand drive cars but here the cars have a foot rest next to the clutch. I still see no problem with left foot braking if you know what you are doing.....

Mick

We are all clear on that now.

[Cuts Crooked]

My teenager took his exam in a 1960 Ford Falcon. The female examiner went ballistic when she got in the car...no seat belts, and a three on the tree. She'd never seen or heard of such a thing. Wouldn't let him take the exam. We got one of the other examiners to give him his driving test. He aced it!

My boys always use their left foot....for the clutch! (they refuse drive our mini van, the youngest calls it a "slush box shift")

[Goofaroo]

I really think that Toyota was targeted for all the bad press just because they are the most successful car manufacturer in the world. It all played out much in the same way that people attack Wal-Mart. Being a huge and successful company seems to paste a bullseye on your corporate name.
Further fuel was added to this by the failure of GM and Chrysler followed by the involuntary bailout of these companies by the American public. Toyota was absolutely spanking our domestic manufacturers so an attempt was made to tarnish their stellar image. It certainly had the desired effect for a short while but Toyota will remain the leader in quality automobiles and you will never convince a Toyota owner otherwise. It was a pity to see people publicly claiming that their Toyota vehicles were to blame for their own incompetence but Toyota handled it beautifully and never once pointed the finger at their customers but instead answered with numerous voluntary recalls.
I think Toyota handled the vicious attack with complete dignity and I am confident that they will continue to be regarded as the highest quality vehicles offered by any manufacturer.
I would love to see GM and Chrysler figure out how to build a quality vehicle that is worth considering but I think we are several years from seeing any real improvement if it happens at all.
 Kudos go out to Ford. We didn't have to keep them in business and they are competitive in international markets. They are endeared by Europeans and thought of as one of their own. Of course it doesn't hurt that the Europeans get a lot of model choices that we don't see here. They sell diesel sedans there that get over 50MPG. Why they don't send those models over here and give Volkswagen a bit of competition is beyond me. A well thought out campaign promoting their diesel could make it hard for Toyota to sell that damn Prius.
 
 

[dave500]

my car is an automatic,an older carburetted one,it has no choke or fast cold idle,i have to "two foot" it for one or two minutes from cold then its fine,only because thats the way this car is,left foot brake is bad practise,and you will fail a driving test here in queensland for it,racing/hooning/stunt driving etc is a different matter,its more of a neccesity in these cases,fork lift trucks are another different matter.

[333]

It should be no surprise to anyone that people in this forum have no problem left foot braking.  As Bikers, we have the coordination to do this.  It's others that cause the problem.  People that, have not only not driven a car with a manual transmission, but are afraid to try.   It is why left foot braking should never be taught.  It seems that society is always held back by the weakest link.  Another example is cell phones.  The few of us who can successfully use one behind the wheel (realizing that driving is priority #1) will be regulated by those who can't.

But I don't believe the car wasn't a major contributor to this issue, regardless of any findings.  When this happened, it came out that Toyotas didn't have the safeguards that other cars had.  The fact that the programming subroutine that kills the accelerator when the brake is applied is somehow forgotten?

[fmctm1sw]

I actually have an old drivers ed textbok here, I'll look at it later..

Well I didn't see anything specific to what foot is used but I DID find pictures of some SOHC bikes in it!  I'll post them later.  


here...

[Roach]

now there is some proper riding gear lol

[Skunk Stripe]

HEY cut-off shorts are like shields for your legs!

[Gordon]

HEY cut-off shorts are like shields for your legs!

Unfortunately he's not wearing the appropriate Corona tank top and flip-flops.

[Frankencake]

HEY cut-off shorts are like shields for your legs!

Unfortunately he's not wearing the appropriate Corona tank top and flip-flops.

That was before NAFTA Corona didn't exist in the states then.

[Skunk Stripe]

Right, I forgot about the tank and flippers!

[dave500]

the answer to the question on the lower photo is he should get off and walk,he looks like a knob and gives us all a bad name,were supposed to meet the nicest people on hondas not knobs!

[fmctm1sw]

the answer to the question on the lower photo is he should get off and walk,he looks like a knob and gives us all a bad name,were supposed to meet the nicest people on hondas not knobs!

Exactly.  The copyright is 1982 to be fair.  You should see some of the cars in it!  Chevy Citation anyone?   

[Ichiban 4]

I really think that Toyota was targeted for all the bad press just because they are the most successful car manufacturer in the world. It all played out much in the same way that people attack Wal-Mart. Being a huge and successful company seems to paste a bullseye on your corporate name.
Further fuel was added to this by the failure of GM and Chrysler followed by the involuntary bailout of these companies by the American public. Toyota was absolutely spanking our domestic manufacturers so an attempt was made to tarnish their stellar image. It certainly had the desired effect for a short while but Toyota will remain the leader in quality automobiles and you will never convince a Toyota owner otherwise. It was a pity to see people publicly claiming that their Toyota vehicles were to blame for their own incompetence but Toyota handled it beautifully and never once pointed the finger at their customers but instead answered with numerous voluntary recalls.
I think Toyota handled the vicious attack with complete dignity and I am confident that they will continue to be regarded as the highest quality vehicles offered by any manufacturer.
I would love to see GM and Chrysler figure out how to build a quality vehicle that is worth considering but I think we are several years from seeing any real improvement if it happens at all.
 Kudos go out to Ford. We didn't have to keep them in business and they are competitive in international markets. They are endeared by Europeans and thought of as one of their own. Of course it doesn't hurt that the Europeans get a lot of model choices that we don't see here. They sell diesel sedans there that get over 50MPG. Why they don't send those models over here and give Volkswagen a bit of competition is beyond me. A well thought out campaign promoting their diesel could make it hard for Toyota to sell that damn Prius.
 
 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

I think that Goofaroo hit the nail on the head here.  Think a lot of the whoop-dee-do about Toyota's problems was "Jap bashing"..and jealousy by American car manufacturers and politicos.  Much more problematic situations happened with Chevy Corvairs..Ford Pintos..et al..w/o the spectacle.

Interesting news just today in the papers..that the NTASB found most problems with Toyota due to driver error..not the multiple accusations that Congress..et al..were levelling against them.

Living daily with a Japanese citizen..I have first-hand experience that prejudice against Japanese folks..is still alive and well in some sectors of the good 'Ol US of A..sadly.

Ichi