Author Topic: Info for crazy engine builders.  (Read 6202 times)

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Offline crazypj

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Info for crazy engine builders.
« on: March 30, 2006, 08:18:06 AM »
Hi Folks,
I do engines, particularly modified ones.
 Dont know if anyone wants a big bore 750 but heres some info that may be of interest.
XR200 uses same pin as CB750 with same crown height. (distance from pin centre to top)
You can get Wiseco pistons up to about 4mm OS for 200
 XR/XL 200 STD bore is 65.5
 XR/XL185 is 63mm if you dont want to go so far.
Havnt done the math but its going to be bigger.
I only just thought about this as I've done a couple of CB350twins for CCS racing and had forgotten thats the piston for a 836  kit.
The CB350 twin piston is starting to be diffiicult to come by but there others are easiy available. If you want to go all out you will have to change the liners and bore the cases but its not a big deal (at least for me as I trained as a precision machinist)
Ohiocaferacer may be interested? CB360 liners will just take a 70mm bore and they fit into CB350 twin (or 750 for that matter)
It means that the CB500/550 owners can get some handme downs for a 591cc conversion as well.
PJ
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2006, 08:45:45 AM »
more info,more info please
mark
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2006, 08:58:24 AM »


                                               Yes, bring it on (CB500/550 for me).
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Offline cb(r)

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2006, 09:00:20 AM »
I like to here info like this!  It keeps me inspired!

Offline crazypj

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2006, 09:33:39 AM »
What do you need to know?
CB750 pistons into 500/550?
 You need access to a lathe to turn the tops slightly to fit into combustion chamber, dont remember the exact angle but its easy to find when you have it apart. I usually turn about 1 degree less to give a more even 'squish' Did over 70,000 on my bike without any problems (other than piston ring wear, but that was due to the 13,500 rpm 'limit') Dont have any info on the others I've done (so they must be working OK, you can bet I'd know it they F***** up)) You can fit CB500 pistons and liners into CB400F (never tried it on CB350F but seems possible) thats quite a lot more involved though. '400' will wheelie straight off the throttle without massive rpm and severe clutch abuse ;D ;D ;D.
Modded 550 will do about 125 with hard bags and tank bag,(and a piper cam, 4 into 1 ex, bit of porting) but hanldes like #$%* at 115~120, (ok when you get above this speed) obviously more with low bars.
The Wiseco piston came like this stock, it may be a bit radical for road use but you can get them with lower compression. It shows how a 750 piston would be modified for use in a 550 though (and gives a natural lower comp ratio) 500 pistons dont need modifying for 400 as they are flat top.
The holding fixture fits into lathe with a long draw bolt through headstock.  It means you can do several pistons without holding them directly in chuck and you dont need to spend a lot of time centring things up (uses a 'u' nut, the piston pin, with some all thread and a spacer/washer. cant find them offhand) Thats not a very good picture so I'll try again.
PJ

« Last Edit: March 30, 2006, 09:39:20 AM by crazypj »
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Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2006, 10:02:43 AM »
Looks like this one needs to be a FAQ... Okay, here's another one... I have an 810 (812?) Yoshimura (CB750K) that's going to need rings. Any idea what rings will fit these pistons? I seem to remember somewhere that Yoshi used a standard honda piston from another model... Thanks in advance!
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Offline ohiocaferacer

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2006, 10:11:43 AM »
PJ....your killing me!!! LOL!!

Your puttting all these little ideas in my head for a new project 350 twin. Thats the whole reason I would stay away from that yahoo group of yours. ;D

Really though.....we'll have to team up sometime and work out some details on building a hyper-350 twin....a 350 twin that needs Ritalin!! I've got an extra motor and another complete CB350 sitting in the corner of the shop.....HUM???

Keep sending the info,
Greg
« Last Edit: March 30, 2006, 10:13:22 AM by ohiocaferacer »

Offline crazypj

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2006, 11:07:13 AM »
PJ....your killing me!!! LOL!!

Your puttting all these little ideas in my head for a new project 350 twin. Thats the whole reason I would stay away from that yahoo group of yours. ;D

Really though.....we'll have to team up sometime and work out some details on building a hyper-350 twin....a 350 twin that needs Ritalin!! I've got an extra motor and another complete CB350 sitting in the corner of the shop.....HUM???

Keep sending the info,
Greg


I found you cant fit Suzuki GS500 pistons to CB350 (74mm bore) It just wont work (of course I tried)
pic is block bored for GS500 liners, step is original crankcase. You cansee how far it had to be offset and the breakthrough on the fins
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Offline ohiocaferacer

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2006, 11:22:30 AM »
OH MY GOD!!!! THAT IS FREAK'N UNREAL!! LMAO!!! ;D

If that would have worked......I think she may have had a little more vibration than a stock bike...LOL!!

What about the cyclinder studs if you could get something close to that size.........have to use XS650 studs or something to keep the topend from blowing off. Ever done something close??

Greg



Offline crazypj

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2006, 11:37:50 AM »
Suzuki GS1100 rear engine mounting bolts are shorter and same dia. as XS650 (10mm). I cant remember if it was upper or lower, still available about $7.00 each. Not a rolled thread though. I've told a couple of people at CCS races, obviously didnt share the knowledge.
PJ
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Offline malcolmgb

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2006, 01:23:54 PM »
don't know if it is of use to anyone here but I wrote an Excel spreadsheet for calculating engine size.

You will need to alter the extension back from .txt to .xls because of upload restrictions, and need Excel on your PC to use it.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2006, 01:26:02 PM by malcolmgb »
Malcolm

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Offline crazypj

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2006, 10:11:56 PM »
Looks like this one needs to be a FAQ... Okay, here's another one... I have an 810 (812?) Yoshimura (CB750K) that's going to need rings. Any idea what rings will fit these pistons? I seem to remember somewhere that Yoshi used a standard honda piston from another model... Thanks in advance!

I'm pretty sure J&E pistons list by diameter and thickness. they can make you up 4 sets if you need them.
PJ
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Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2006, 03:54:19 PM »
Thanks, crazypj! I guess it's time to get out the mike... Ride safe!
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Offline Noel

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2006, 07:53:49 PM »
I wish I had enough posts to my credit to be able to give karma. Crazypj is my new hero.  :o :D
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2006, 08:48:18 PM »

   Just keep on plugging there Noel and before you know it, you'll be able to give karma to who ever you wish.  later on, Bill
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PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
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Offline Big Jay

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2006, 12:28:48 AM »
Looks like this one needs to be a FAQ... Okay, here's another one... I have an 810 (812?) Yoshimura (CB750K) that's going to need rings. Any idea what rings will fit these pistons? I seem to remember somewhere that Yoshi used a standard honda piston from another model... Thanks in advance!

Probably CB350 twin std.

Jay

Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2006, 01:00:04 AM »
Good info, Jay! I'll check it out. Thanks!
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Offline crazypj

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2006, 07:21:14 PM »
Just dug out some parts from 'storage' 400F block without liners, (liners are still on the shelf) Std bore in block is about 59mm. Looks like it can be bored at least 2.5mm over (61.5mm) usually need minimum of 2.5mm liner thickness on this small a cylinder, so it looks like 56.5 is max overbore on 400F.
Anybody need some 400f  std. liners?( over size 350f?) Also found some GS750 liners and 3 pistons. May go into a CB750 or will fit CB350 twin. 74mm OD, 115mm overall length (66mm to 68mm piston)
ohiocaferacer, I have a pair of liners ready to fit CB350twin with Wiseco pistons. need fitting and finishing (bored undersize it present) Block will need boring to fit.
PJ
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Offline ohiocaferacer

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2006, 04:02:15 AM »
PJ,

Thanks.....very tempting, but there is alot going on around the shop right now and cant work in doing a new motor right now........hopefully in the near future.....but no can do right now. We are hammering away on making the alloy CR350 alloy GP tanks......shooting for having 3 finished by the end of the week.

Later,
Greg

Offline Geeto67

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2006, 04:20:26 AM »
Ok, can I clear something up? the cb350 twin pistons are the same diameter as 811cc pistons not 836cc pistons. I just used a set of std 350 rings to re ring my 811 pistons. furthermore the pin location on a cb350 twin is different than a cb750 piston so you can't just order cb350 pistons and expect them to work in your 750. the other thing that bothers me is that although the
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2006, 07:34:17 AM »
Ok, can I clear something up? the cb350 twin pistons are the same diameter as 811cc pistons not 836cc pistons. I just used a set of std 350 rings to re ring my 811 pistons. furthermore the pin location on a cb350 twin is different than a cb750 piston so you can't just order cb350 pistons and expect them to work in your 750. the other thing that bothers me is that although the

                Hey Geeto,
                                   I don't think we have any mind readers in the group. You were saying
     "The other thing that bothers me is that although the------"  What-  The what?  Would you mind
      finishing your thought? We are waiting.

                                          Later on,   Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2006, 08:57:52 AM »
Geeto... Thanks for the info on the CB350 rings for the Yoshi 812.  Much appreciated! Ted
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2006, 12:10:15 PM »
I'll second or third the 350 rings for the Yoshi 812. I had a guy at Hastings check out my Yoshi 812 piston and thats what he told me. Works great.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

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Re: Info for crazy engine builders.
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2006, 01:40:48 PM »
Crazy...

Where are you located?