Author Topic: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga (Read 199567 times)

bwaller · « **Reply #1400 on:** September 04, 2019, 03:32:36 PM »

TG, there is only that one class where he's racing with those guys. Nearly every weekend this is the class he runs his fastest times. Often alone & chasing, no surprise!

Last weekend Dave Roper raced an MV350 (former Ago ride) three cylinder which belongs to Team Obsolete. It was music to everyone's ears!

Rocketman · « **Reply #1401 on:** September 04, 2019, 08:19:38 PM »

Congratulations to you and Tyler on your “abbreviated” season. Turning a 1:36 at Mosport is a great way to end the season! You and Tyler have set the bar high. Hope you have a great off season.

Old Scrambler · « **Reply #1402 on:** September 09, 2019, 05:36:48 PM »

Good on you and Tyler..........its always good to see a small motor go head to head with the big boys

RAFster122s · « **Reply #1403 on:** September 09, 2019, 08:29:09 PM »

Brent and Tyler, great work on ending with a high note! Good to hear the 550 is punching above its weight as always.
Hope the motor improvement program continues to yield good results.
David

bwaller · « **Reply #1404 on:** September 10, 2019, 07:33:19 AM »

Well thanks guys. I suppose there is always a little extra power if one tries hard enough. Unfortunately to remain in our period 2 means some of the potential gains would be outside the rules. We're making 75RWHP @572cc and the thing is dead nuts reliable. It runs away from anything else in it's P2 class, or bump up class for that matter, (P3 Superbike is another matter!) so trying harder for more might just create a grenade!

I have thought about switching from 35 to 38mm forks that the class allows. Or possibly calling it a Period 3 bike which allows 17" wheels, race slicks, or true rain tires, and tire warmers. Slicks alone would seriously drop lap times. However then racing in AHRMA with those wheels wouldn't allow us to run the F500 class where it belongs.

Maybe just keeping it fresh and easy to ride is a good thing afterall, at least for now!

turboguzzi · « **Reply #1405 on:** September 10, 2019, 09:04:58 AM »

38mm ok, have them now on my 500 too (with cartridge damping

)

But 17" rims?

please no!

itll make the bike such a strange bastard of 70's design with 90's stance, like sticking some A/C units to the tower of Pisa

Never mind the fact that the extra grip will take frame forces to a completely new level IMHO.

thought you were more classy Brent

bwaller · « **Reply #1406 on:** September 10, 2019, 09:41:59 AM »

I agree TG. In the VRRA it is a Period 2 bike, there are these other options, but creating a bastard of different periods doesn't appeal to me either.

The reason for consideration of 17" and the biggest problem we have here is tire availability. The last three Avon rears I bought had to be ordered out of the UK and I paid $400+ CDN. Fronts are easier. I plan to propose a rule change so we can use the Conti radials which now are against the rules. That would help make using 18" wheels easier.

The fact the bike does well in a later different period is a bonus. Nearly a decade plus SOHC vs DOHC engines. Tyler has raced several newer bikes but tells me he appreciates the 550 for the linear power delivery, and how well planted it is at speed. It's a small bike but is fun to ride..... I always felt the same.

Also, I thought you knew me better, classy is not a word used to describe moi!!

simon#42 · « **Reply #1407 on:** September 10, 2019, 10:09:15 AM »

forget the 38mm forks they will just be heavier and have more wind resistance !

turboguzzi · « **Reply #1408 on:** September 10, 2019, 10:34:13 AM »

Agree on the wind resistance

but i weighted them and the 38 zx600 fork i've put is lighter than the stock 35 honda! the wall thickness of the honda tubes is simply staggering, they must have been made off some ship building left overs from kawasaki HEAVY industries that they got for cheap

simon#42 · « **Reply #1409 on:** September 10, 2019, 01:41:42 PM »

yes you are right yossef the standard tubes are a touch over engineered ! if you have reached the limit of reliable power i would concentrate on getting rid of weight
they say a couple of pounds off is the same as one hp on when it comes to lap times .

bwaller · « **Reply #1410 on:** September 10, 2019, 03:09:15 PM »

Sure the stock tubes are ridiculously heavy, guess it's so they can be straightened over & over!

I have two sets of really nice 35mm forks, makes changing to 38mm more difficult.

Weight removal is always a good thing, but naturally at this point, becomes expensive. I built wider wheels last winter, now use a small disc in the rear. End result...no change in weight. I seriously looked at buying a set of Magnesium wheels from Ted, but the rear was narrower than I wanted. Plus can you trust old mag wheels?? Sure have them tested for cracks, but then how often after that? I chose not to.

Apparently the Continental tires are heavy, #$%* what next. The bike weighs 322 dry which isn't a lightweight but this was on a forklift scale that is certified often so is exact. I hear about other bike weights and I wonder.

I can't use anything other than a stock frame, so this one has been modified. There could be several pounds shed there alone, but alas....

Besides Simon, the magic number is 7 lbs per HP, not 2. Methinks I'm leaving it alone.

scottly · « **Reply #1411 on:** September 10, 2019, 11:22:52 PM »

Quote from: simon#42 on September 10, 2019, 01:41:42 PM

they say a couple of pounds off is the same as one hp on when it comes to lap times .

It really depends on the total weight and the HP to weight ratio. A couple of pounds makes less of a difference on a bike/rider weight of 600 pounds than a total weight of 500 pounds, given the same HP from the motor. In Brent's case of 322 dry, plus fuel and suited pilot, I'm making a wild ass guess of 500 pounds?
500/75=6.66:1. 498/75=6.64:1, which boils down to adding .226 HP to the 500 pound bike.

simon#42 · « **Reply #1412 on:** September 11, 2019, 10:11:09 AM »

seven brent , that might work for a fat bloke on a heavy old road bike but for a skinny teen on a 125 the numbers are much lower !

bwaller · « **Reply #1413 on:** September 12, 2019, 09:41:58 AM »

Quote from: simon#42 on September 11, 2019, 10:11:09 AM

seven brent , that might work for a fat bloke on a heavy old road bike but for a skinny teen on a 125 the numbers are much lower !

Hahaha, oh my, the truth hurts Simon!

Old Scrambler · « **Reply #1414 on:** September 12, 2019, 10:55:23 AM »

I like that formula............7-lbs. = 1-hp..............a mix of me and my bike could loose (mostly me) 15 or more lbs.

I'm running 18-inch wheels with BTs to stay light.........and narrow........I saved over $100 on Amazon and my service-center was happy to learn that other tires were available somewhat below his wholesaler price with no minimum purchase.

bwaller · « **Reply #1415 on:** November 27, 2019, 04:56:08 PM »

Valve springs. I use Kibblewhite dual springs mostly because that's all I can find easily. R&D offer springs but I've heard poor results. My experience proves springs should be changed at least every season. On occasion I've seen a loss of 15lbs seat pressure after only three race weekends. So the point is change them often.

This off-season is a breeze, cylinder is being replated for new pistons/rings. Otherwise everything looks good including the new gear that held us up at the beginning of last year.

turboguzzi · « **Reply #1416 on:** November 28, 2019, 01:24:36 AM »

Replated? Are those alu bores with nikasil?

MRieck · « **Reply #1417 on:** November 28, 2019, 07:33:21 AM »

Quote from: bwaller on November 27, 2019, 04:56:08 PM

Valve springs. I use Kibblewhite dual springs mostly because that's all I can find easily. R&D offer springs but I've heard poor results. My experience proves springs should be changed at least every season. On occasion I've seen a loss of 15pds seat pressure after only three race weekends. So the point is change them often.

This off-season is a breeze, cylinder is being replated for new pistons/rings. Otherwise everything looks good including the new gear that held us up at the beginning of last year.

That is gospel.

bwaller · « **Reply #1418 on:** November 28, 2019, 09:58:48 AM »

No TG, plated aluminum bores are illegal. However plating the cast liners is ok. Nikasyl yes.

Mike, this spring set has two race weekends and only needed thin shimming, so will re-use them. That last set of springs were odd and had sacked 1/8" compared to new. I remember they were labeled correctly but man they were junk in no time!

bwaller · « **Reply #1419 on:** December 04, 2019, 03:14:34 PM »

I may need a different crank, and this is the only spare I have. I suspect this is water damage, but otherwise the surface is very smooth.

Can anyone suggest any issue not to use?

Tintop · « **Reply #1420 on:** December 04, 2019, 05:16:10 PM »

I've seen worse damaged journals. Place that I have used for both race & street cranks for decades should be able to help. http://www.canadianchrome.com/ I'd just send them those pics with an inquiry Brent. The fear I would have is that the 'rust' may have weakened the surface, and it might gaul under race heat/loads.

Tintop · « **Reply #1421 on:** December 04, 2019, 05:24:16 PM »

Quote from: bwaller on November 28, 2019, 09:58:48 AM

No TG, plated aluminum bores are illegal. However plating the cast liners is ok. Nikasyl yes.

Mike, this spring set has two race weekends and only needed thin shimming, so will re-use them. That last set of springs were odd and had sacked 1/8" compared to new. I remember they were labeled correctly but man they were junk in no time!

Are you sure about that Brent? Maybe the sidecar rules were slightly different, but my impression was 'internals were free', only the main castings needed to be stock externally.

bwaller · « **Reply #1422 on:** December 04, 2019, 07:44:52 PM »

Hi Brian. These crank pics are a spare crank. I'll add pics of the other one from the bike later.

Yes I was told plated alloy bores are a no-no, at least in P1-P2 unless they were plated from original.

simon#42 · « **Reply #1423 on:** December 05, 2019, 10:16:45 AM »

must admit i would not be keen to use that , have you had a good look at it with a magnifying glass?

bwaller · « **Reply #1424 on:** December 16, 2019, 03:45:44 PM »

The good and bad of it all.....

Last off season I had to have a new 5th gear c/s made because there was "chipping" of one tooth face. (At this point the only OEM gearbox part left is the countershaft.) At the same time there was one tooth on the 16T mainshaft 1st gear which showed a slight chip missing as well. There was some piston skirt scoring last year that I expect may have been caused by this "chaff." I figured since 1st gear is the race start only gear and for putzing around the pits one little chip could be tolerated.

This year more piston scoring plus one crank rod journal was also damaged. This m/s 1st gear now has 6 teeth with damage (pic below) so will now need a new expensive mainshaft produced since that 1st gear is integral. Again I expect this material is to blame for damage, somehow before the oil filter catches it.

I'm not a metallurgist but am fairly certain the steel used to make these components was correct, but perhaps not the material hardening. Long story, not worth going further. This 6spd gearbox has been flawless and used under race conditions for several years, but two parts in as many years is discouraging.

I'm now thinking cryogenic and micropolish treatments are worth a look. It doesn't replace proper metal choices etc, but after a long discussion today with a race shop manager, I was enlightened.

Also I found another good used crank in the shop that I cleaned and polished that is off for balancing. Comparing with the crank used for the last 10 years it is evident looking at the primary chain gear/sprocket there is wear. I'll try to enlarge the pic below so the tooth edge comparison is evident. New bearings all around and we'll be good to go.

Next up....I received back the newly re-plated cylinder. Two problems here, one sleeve did not plate well, in fact it should have been seen from a mile away, but was somehow shipped back. Secondly both upper & lower gasket surfaces were bead blasted. I told them not to touch these but probably some young guy with a new job went to town anyway. So now I will send them a single sleeve to be bored and plated. My plan is to try to drop the sleeves, clean up both surfaces on a surface plate and re install the sleeves when I get that one back. More work than it should have been. Once finished new pistons, rings and pins will be assembled.

Quite a bit more work that expected this off season. Many new parts for no real gain.

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Author Topic: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga (Read 199567 times)