Author Topic: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga  (Read 187243 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1450 on: February 21, 2021, 08:13:40 am »
Simon, the minute I realized the shafts ended undersized I wished I hadn't done it.   :P  It's not as if they are sloppy but my thinking is every piece will be the same. I didn't polish any bushings, but you get my drift. It is for certain friction will be reduced...fingers crossed there are no negative results.

Re front brakes, I'd appreciate opinions here. I had a few thoughts, two larger cast rotors with the small Brembo's, or one larger rotor and a larger caliper, or two larger calipers and the original smaller rotors. I have no spare discs so getting two larger ones gives me spares I need, plus options down the road in case I want to try one single and larger caliper.

I've always been concerned with twisting of puny forks with a strong single front brake. I have a fork brace and 20mm axle but single axle caps. I dress those SS Honda rotors with a rotor hone in a lathe every few races. Point is they kinda suck. I've sheared all the weight off them I feel safe with, same with the new cast ones. We'll have to be mindful of rain with the cast iron.

Tyler has always wanted better brakes, this will be a solid improvement. I'm open to what people thing .

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,575
  • liverpool
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1451 on: February 21, 2021, 10:31:22 am »
the cast iron will be much better in the rain , you should still be able to get a pad compound that works with them . try ferodo cp211 they should work ok , stay away from anything sintered cast iron is too soft for them . big discs do have draw backs . apart from the weight the gyroscopic forces are very noticeable . as the bike is pretty light i would go for one large disk with a bigger caliper . it might squirm a bit but it will stop and still be easy to turn .

Offline Old Scrambler

  • My CB750K3 has been in 39 States & 5 Provinces
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,802
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1452 on: February 21, 2021, 10:46:44 am »
Off-Season = Work Time ;)

Nice Safety Wire ;D

Good used parts are better than new.......but will continue to wear. My thoughts are that spring degradation is less of an issue with the beehive design........and that removing your front wheel between events will allow for a coating of spray-on zink to the rotors and prevent rust at the pucks....... you will need to buff the rotors before re-installing.

I back-off my rocker-adjusters when the bike is parked to relieve spring tension. We continue to learn from your experiences and I wish for your success in 2021 :)
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
'63 CL72 Project(s)
'66 CL77 Red
'67 Triumph T100C
'73 750K3 Owned since New
'77 750F2 Cafe Project
2020 ROYAL ENFIELD Himalayan

Offline turboguzzi

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,080
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1453 on: February 22, 2021, 11:13:03 am »
hei brent, good to see you alive, kicking and wrenching. not exactly whats happening in my front, but wont hack your thread....sounds like you lost some night's sleep over that micro finish... :)

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1454 on: March 14, 2021, 09:48:52 am »
I'm looking for any thoughts on using a bushing or bearing on the rear brake caliper bracket. My wheel spacer on that side is quite long so should be lots of easy options. Any cool pics would be great. I'm making a new torque arm and will weld an attach point on the frame instead of swingarm.

Truth is I've been lazy lately in making a decision how to proceed.  ::)


Offline turboguzzi

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,080
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1455 on: March 14, 2021, 11:06:51 am »
I think that a "floating" rear caliper was more a fad of the 80-90s, havent seen them in anything more recent,

ducati tried them for a few sessions last year, didnt give any advantage, then went back to fixed to swingarm

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1456 on: March 14, 2021, 12:26:57 pm »
Even if attached to the arm, the caliper should probably still float. I plan to test a couple options on swingarm movement with shocks removed and brake applied.

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,575
  • liverpool
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1457 on: March 14, 2021, 01:00:45 pm »
pro squat was all the rage . the idea being the more you braked the more weight was on the rear tyre . this fad ended when it was realised that A nobody used the back brake and B the last thing you need when you are trying to turn is the bloody back squatting .

Offline turboguzzi

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,080
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1458 on: March 15, 2021, 12:09:12 am »
i just attached the torque rod to the original anchor point in the front of the arm.... it is "floating" only when the axle nut is untorqued, when its torqued you clamp the bushing (or rather hole in the carrier) you dont need any free movement in the bushing...

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,147
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1459 on: March 15, 2021, 03:20:39 am »
Only advantage of having a bearing in the caliper carrier over a bushing is a bearings ability to have less wear to the axle, theoretically at least.
But, a properly lubricated oilite bushing is riding on a lubricating film of oil and not the actual metal in the bushing. Modern oilite bushings are often made of a oil impregnated nylon instead of one of the traditional bronze oilite alloys.

Boron Aluminium Magnesium (BAM) is the latest and most slippery substance we know about. Its coefficient of friction is 0.02, it is substantially slicker than Teflon (0.05) and lubricated steel (0.16).

It is a ceramic and can be a fantastic coating to reduce friction and wear. They were searching for a super conduction substance when they created it back in '99. It is the third hardest substance know to man, up there with diamonds and cubic boron nitride.

So, any race engine coatings using BAM yet? Imagine the coating  makers have perfected their coating. I have no idea of the expense of BAM or usefulness in our context discussed here.

If you could develop a coating film that would hold up and not shed itself over time can you imagine the gains of reducing friction on orders of magnitude of previous ceramic coatings. But, with it being so hard, the destruction BAM would do to other parts inside an engine is mind numbing.
If every rotating part were to have a ceramic BAM coating the frictional reductions would transfer loads to other parts and you would cascade the wear to parts previously not thought of as a weak link but merely a component that wears. Or, you could transfer the load the uncoated parts were balancing within a motor causing that part to start seeing failures because of changes in the dynamics and loads in a motor.
A previous undersized component having a ceramic coating of bam on it and its related friction interface (bearing or bushing) and you see the classic weak link issue being transferred to the next link in the chain.

So, what are you making your caliper carrier bushing from???

David
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 03:22:58 am by RAF122S »
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,575
  • liverpool
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1460 on: March 15, 2021, 10:49:59 am »
as nothing turns in the caliper bush when the bike is moving there is not much point in any of that .

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1461 on: September 06, 2021, 01:56:55 pm »
Wow time flies, last post March. It's simple, when nothing happens, there is nothing to report!

Our race season ended this past weekend. I was asked to head up a small team of ex racers in a safety check on the mock grid. Pretty simple stuff and I communicate with race direction in the tower. It keeps me involved with the club and our group gets along and has our share of laughter!

Our ass'n had only two rounds, one in Aug and last weekend. The provincial gov't mandates track safety regarding Covid but spectators were allowed. It just seems odd that we've only had three rounds in two years and our neighbours to the south are running events non-stop. Be that what it may, it was great hooking up with fellow motorcycle folk and enjoying some good racing.

My bike raced only the August round at Mosport and the track was fast, Tyler dropped into the low 1:36's which is fully half a second faster than his previous best. Good for a 70's 500. I finally finished an alteration with the rear caliper bracket, and torque arm. Just simply the way it should have been designed the first time.

When I sent the cylinder to Millenium for replating after the 2019 season, I asked that they straighten the upper deck, which they did, however they then bead blasted both surfaces. One sleeve didn't plate well and was overlooked so I returned it with another spare sleeve to use as a replacement. After much "discussion" LOL they agreed to remove the sleeves and re-do the surfaces. They argued until blue in the face that "older Hondas need a blasted surface to help seal". I argued to the contrary! The surfaces were mirror like when returned, certainly the smoothest surfaces I've ever seen.

During the months after engine assembly while I finished the chassis work, I fretted about this. Maybe the blasted surface would allow a better "bite" for the viton/steel base gasket and the sealant I use with the copper head. Did I shoot myself in the foot.....?

The answer is no! It has never been more oil tight. If the decks are flat, then the smoother the better, and the proof was in the pudding. Honestly I felt more than a little relief, but glad to have stuck to my principals. LOL

I want to re-think an idea to limit shift drum rotation during shifting. In race pace there is never an issue, but at a reduced pace like the sighting lap or cool down it sometimes slips through 2nd into neutral on a down shift. The CB650's shifter shaft incorporates a mechanical limit during shifting as I recall. I'll attach some pics later if it's an easy solution. 

« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 01:59:17 pm by bwaller »

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,147
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1462 on: September 06, 2021, 04:39:38 pm »
Sorry to hear you guys have been locked down and unable to race. Hopefully it wasn't without positive effects for the virus reduction.

Glad you had great results though.

I think the virus and its mutations will be with us a long time...so, we need to learn to adapt and move on with our lives. Enjoy life now, there are no makeup days...
Happiness is largely a choice.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1463 on: August 19, 2024, 02:17:40 pm »
Well I've been a bit of a stranger here for a long while. I just wanted to make a quick update in case anyone remembers, or gives a damn!

The VRRA had our Mosport (Canadian Tire Motorsport Park) round this past weekend. The weather was good & bad but managed to get through all the finals yesterday. My son Tyler is probably only able to make one race weekend a year, so my bike doesn't get raced very often. He did very well though and came within a second or so per lap of his previous best time. The bike ran like a top.

Martin Morrison and his brother came from Ohio to race with us and both rode well. Martin raced his CB550 and it looked and sounded great as usual. Tyler and Martin finished one/two in their natural class, so good outcome for the 550's. Well done guys

I'll see if I can dig up some pics and post them here. 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2024, 02:22:59 pm by bwaller »

Offline Old Scrambler

  • My CB750K3 has been in 39 States & 5 Provinces
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,802
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1464 on: August 19, 2024, 02:56:24 pm »
It's great to hear from you..........NO.........we have not forgotton ;)
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
'63 CL72 Project(s)
'66 CL77 Red
'67 Triumph T100C
'73 750K3 Owned since New
'77 750F2 Cafe Project
2020 ROYAL ENFIELD Himalayan

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,147
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1465 on: August 19, 2024, 04:38:46 pm »
Brent congrats to you both on the great results and fun outing. After the Davies frame suffered a nasty outcome did you replace it with another or go back to your reinforced stock frame for the cb550?

Congrats again!
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1466 on: August 19, 2024, 05:36:06 pm »
Never had a Davies frame.

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,147
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1467 on: August 19, 2024, 05:38:02 pm »
Was it another custom frame or am I merely dreaming?
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline turboguzzi

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,080
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1468 on: August 20, 2024, 12:47:29 am »
wow, nice to hear! kudos to you and Tyler still being competitive.

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1469 on: August 20, 2024, 06:54:15 am »
We changed the steering head and head angle, plus beefed up that area. Thanks TG, it's been a while, I'll send you a note.

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1470 on: August 21, 2024, 09:25:31 am »
This bike is done for the season. It hasn't been raced much the last couple seasons, and probably has only 5 race weekends since last rebuild. Still I always tore it down and followed my procedure at the end of every season. I'm just unsure how much the bike will race going forward.

The bike is running flawlessly, but I decided to do a leakdown test and decide how the top end looked. I always drain all race gas then run it on pump gas to heat it up to drain oil. I have found the VP fuel I use will rust spark plug ends if left so must be some corrosive properties if left alone.

I'd like to hear how others perform leakdown testing, but I like to run the engine, then cool a bit but check while still warm. Then pull each piston to TDC, then back it down the cyl about 10 degrees and have someone hold the crank in place, so the piston doesn't move. It's really good, 1x 3.5%, 3x 4%, all past the rings. With Nic bores and thin rings I've seen this before, it takes a while to seat the rings.

There is some metal chaff on the drain plug magnet which I expect is from the gearbox from after it was polished. Maybe I'll just pull the bottom case and check it. Otherwise the top end is fine.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

  • This MuthaF'er is getting to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,890
  • Bought her new 4/75
Re: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga
« Reply #1471 on: August 21, 2024, 01:39:53 pm »
Damn Brent! I knew I was missing something in my life - your race reports. Get back on it asap
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)