Author Topic: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga (Read 199735 times)

turboguzzi · « **Reply #200 on:** July 02, 2011, 10:53:21 PM »

I run 28-ish, both on CB andGPZ

The light ring at bottom of the electrode might be fine for pro tuners with motors to spare, i'd go richer (which would be nearer to the 130-135 i run in my VM's)

but honestly, you are basically fine brent, so just go and run the thing......

bwaller · « **Reply #201 on:** July 03, 2011, 04:02:21 AM »

[quote just go and run the thing......

[/quote]

Ya think? If I don't soon leave well enough alone, Deb will have me carefully placed in a rubber room.

The dyno operator said in his experience free flowing exhausts "fool" his sniffer some. The reading should be consistant but may be high or low. No experience, but that may be the case here. Considering these plugs have only minutes run time and the chop was redline top gear, I think the soot ring shows it's ample rich.

Tintop · « **Reply #202 on:** July 03, 2011, 04:55:44 AM »

Thanks for posting the pic's bw, the plug cutaway is very interesting. Shows how difficult reading plugs can be as far as getting it right. Regarding the electrode wear, in the 1st picture it appears that the ground strap is slightly angled toward the wear point. Could it be that the slight twist in the strap (slightly smaller gap) is causing the plug to fire 1st across this point, hense the wear? When you did your assembly did your check the plug orientation? Is the open part of the plug directly facing the intake valve?

It would seem from the A/F graph that it is going lean in 2 areas, 7.8 to about 9.1 were it starts to richen again, and 10.4 to WOT. Would be interesting to see a graph with just the 125 change reflected.

Regarding timing, would have to agree that if it isn't right, your just wasting time trying to do carbs. 28 degrees does seem very low. While I'm sure the cam is installed to spec's, could it be slightly to advanced for your setup?

bwaller · « **Reply #203 on:** July 03, 2011, 12:29:39 PM »

T-Top what looks like a twist in the ground strap is an illusion, it's definitely not angled down or twisted. My original plan was to work on indexing the plugs and it was becoming a nuissance ordering plug washers and the more I read, the less consensus I found on orientation, so dropped it.

It would have been interesting to have enough time to do a lot of things on the dyno. I don't know what a 1/2 size mainjet would show on a graph, some here might. I can't explain either the slight (less lean) dip in the graph, but the throttle is WFO the whole time. Again originally I planned to try different carbs, baffles, coils, but all this testing takes a huge amount of time and to be honest the closer I felt I was getting the sooner I wanted to be done.

After reading the Jennings article chasing down ignition first makes sense. I was under the gun and figured ignition was really close but carbs needed attention. It surely wasn't a waste of time but for anyone looking to book dyno time, choose a morning appointment.

kayaker43 · « **Reply #204 on:** July 03, 2011, 03:05:47 PM »

Brent

That's the same way I read plugs,.. brand new plug, full throttle chop, cut away the threads. The soot rings will even show half sizes in mainjets. I had a half size jets drilled up from smaller ones and kept a collection of sample plugs and you could read jet sizes from the plugs.

There is an easier way to expose the insulator. Cut completely around the threads up near the washer base and slide off threads to see the whole insulator. The hacksaw stops when it hits ceramic so you know your through.

The soot ring you show is good but could tolerate a half or one size smaller main. I changed jets from morning to afternoon as it warmed up. If you don't want to be that fussy, your reading looks good for a hot day and it would lean a bit on cooler mornings.

The tip erosion is an early warning, I would retard a couple drgrees. I heard needing less advance is one sign of a good combustion chamber.

bwaller · « **Reply #205 on:** July 03, 2011, 03:20:06 PM »

Good info Doug, helps with what I was thinking.

scottly · « **Reply #206 on:** July 03, 2011, 08:46:14 PM »

I superimposed, well, cut and scanned, the dyno chart that plotted HP vs fuel ratio with the chart that plotted HP vs torque. Look at the 7K RPM point; the torque curve drops off when the A/F starts getting leaner. By 9K, the mixture is so lean that pockets of unburned fuel are passing into the exhaust, causing the O2 sensor to give a richer reading, at least that's what I think. The same uneven burn is probably the cause of the blips in the HP curve. Geez, it sure would have been nice to have this kind of data 30 years ago...

bwaller · « **Reply #207 on:** July 13, 2011, 08:12:56 PM »

Race two is in the bag. This was an airport track, using runways & service roads, different track surfaces, some cracks, some rough spots. I felt the back end break loose a few times and never felt completely comfortable. Sorry no pictures, my little pit pal claims she doesn't want to watch me through a camera lens, so for now you'll have to take my word for it.

The bike ran well, strong, six speed shifted well.

In the second practise session the front washed and I crashed in the hairpin. Not a big deal, I never let go of it and was back up and away with only some minor rash. The heat race for my class went well, qualifying in P2 first row. I got a good start in the final and eventually finished third.

This race weekend I felt the bike was much better so I bumped up into another class with several GPZ550's, RD's, a couple TZ250's to name a few. I qualified well again to start the final in P3 and was running third with a nice RD400 on my tail. He worked past me and although I was faster in places, I struggled to stay with him, a good rider. Ended up in fourth.

All in all it was a fun weekend. It was great not to have to fiddle with the bike full time. The next racetrack is fast with a long straight, my bike should be well suited. It's got good legs!

I'll have to step up as well.

After the last race I noticed the aluminum bellypan cracked along welds in two places from vibration and being mounted solidly. Here's a pic of the solution and it seems to work. I added some foam between the pan & the frame so it stays put but is allowed to wiggle independantly. The delrin material on the drive chain guide also seems to be a good solution.

There are a couple issues to resolve. One is the folding footpegs. It's a bit distracting getting setup for a corner as they seem to fold back when I shift weight to hang off for a corner. I prefer a folding peg but if I can't get a stiff enough spring, I'll mount them solid. Second problem is the 400F tank is too short. To compensate I made a long seat. Under hard acceleration I slide rear to the bum stop, then forward under hard braking. It's hard on the arms & I'm forever compensating during braking to be in the right spot to corner. I quess all I need is an alloy tank

scottly · « **Reply #208 on:** July 13, 2011, 08:54:05 PM »

Quote from: bwaller on July 13, 2011, 08:12:56 PM

There are a couple issues to resolve. One is the folding footpegs. It's a bit distracting getting setup for a corner as they seem to fold back when I shift weight to hang off for a corner. I prefer a folding peg but if I can't get a stiff enough spring, I'll mount them solid.

Looking at this pic, you need to rotate the pegs more forward. With the left peg folded up, it looks like it will point at 2 o'clock; it should point closer to 10:00 on the left side, and 2:00 on the right, so pressure on the pegs tends to push them down, rather than up.

turboguzzi · « **Reply #209 on:** July 13, 2011, 10:53:11 PM »

well brent
folding pegs are not even allowed round here, now you know why...

martin426 · « **Reply #210 on:** July 14, 2011, 05:08:06 AM »

I had the pleasure (and jealousy...) in watching you and others take on the North Bay airport circuit this past weekend, and I have to say Brent... you were flying! If you were struggling with little issues and such it sure didn't show. Well done, on a very tidy strong machine.

To comment on your belly pan issue; I did notice from pit-in that the pointed/front part of your pan looked as if it was making contact through the dips in corners 2/3 at times.

Regards,
Scott

MRieck · « **Reply #211 on:** July 14, 2011, 06:01:55 AM »

Quote from: scottly on July 13, 2011, 08:54:05 PM

Quote from: bwaller on July 13, 2011, 08:12:56 PM

There are a couple issues to resolve. One is the folding footpegs. It's a bit distracting getting setup for a corner as they seem to fold back when I shift weight to hang off for a corner. I prefer a folding peg but if I can't get a stiff enough spring, I'll mount them solid.
Looking at this pic, you need to rotate the pegs more forward. With the left peg folded up, it looks like it will point at 2 o'clock; it should point closer to 10:00 on the left side, and 2:00 on the right, so pressure on the pegs tends to push them down, rather than up.

I don't see any sponsor stickers on that bike. Hmmmmmmm...........

TimV840 · « **Reply #212 on:** July 14, 2011, 07:04:14 AM »

Hey Brent, my brother took some photos last weekend. Pretty sure I saw one of you. I'll post it tonight.

I did notice one shot from your pit....thought it was glare on the right upper fairing...I didn't know you had crashed! Sorry to hear that. I have a nice bruise on my right leg from trying to save it in that corner...certainly wasn't skill that kept the bike up!

Like Scott mentioned, I thought your belly pan was coming close, watching you sail though corner 5/6... I don't think you'll have an issue at Mosport though. Just stay away from the curbs, like 5b....

Congrats again on your 3rd place.

TimV #840

Quote from: bwaller on July 13, 2011, 08:12:56 PM

Race two is in the bag. This was an airport track, using runways & service roads, different track surfaces, some cracks, some rough spots. I felt the back end break loose a few times and never felt completely comfortable. Sorry no pictures, my little pit pal claims she doesn't want to watch me through a camera lens, so for now you'll have to take my word for it. The bike ran well, strong, six speed shifted well.

In the second practise session the front washed and I crashed in the hairpin. Not a big deal, I never let go of it and was back up and away with only some minor rash. The heat race for my class went well, qualifying in P2 first row. I got a good start in the final and eventually finished third.

This race weekend I felt the bike was much better so I bumped up into another class with several GPZ550's, RD's, a couple TZ250's to name a few. I qualified well again to start the final in P3 and was running third with a nice RD400 on my tail. He worked past me and although I was faster in places, I struggled to stay with him, a good rider. Ended up in fourth.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #213 on:** July 14, 2011, 07:55:57 AM »

Sounds like a good effort all round Brent, I'm proud of ya.

shame about the tumble but shows you were trying (a little to hard perhaps

)
Get some of Mikes go faster stickers on it and it'll realy fly.

Sam.

TimV840 · « **Reply #214 on:** July 14, 2011, 09:36:16 AM »

FWIW, my brother thought your bike belonged in the show'n'shine instead of racing....

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #215 on:** July 14, 2011, 09:51:48 AM »

Hey Brent old chap, what's with the day glow vest ?

Sam.

bwaller · « **Reply #216 on:** July 14, 2011, 10:01:35 AM »

Scottly I'll drill the bracket so the peg can't locate. That way I can rotate it to a better position and it still fold in case of a get-off. I thinks it's best if the bike slides a bit compared to the peg digging in where anything can happen. Why no folding pegs TG?

Scott, the right rear of the pan just barely touched once in "6" right on that bump in the appex. I heard it at the time. It has to come really close everywhere but so far no problems.

Thanks for the pics Tim, that's while I was wearing the "meatball flag"

Sam the exact placement of JMR stickers take time and serious thought. No doubt they will help with laptimes.

Don't worry Mike, I think I have a good place in mind.

I pulled the oil pan last night and there wasn't even a hint of foreign matter. After Howells gearbox issues I checked mine closely from underneath and everything looks great. Deb claims there is virtually no hint of smoke on the track and even the catch can is dry. Positive news for me.

bwaller · « **Reply #217 on:** July 14, 2011, 10:05:33 AM »

Hey Sam, the association likes newbies wear one for at least the first three outings. You know me I don't break any rules.

I wore it the first race and practise Saturday. All my pit pals (especially Tim here) gave me such a hard time I forgot to wear it later.

turboguzzi · « **Reply #218 on:** July 14, 2011, 10:07:48 AM »

no folding just becuase they might fold just when you dont want them too

if peg mounting points are sturdy enough, peg saves bike form bigger damage.

fixed pegs are required in all pro classes, form 600SS to MotoGP.

pretty surprised they are allowed in Canada.

off to my own race, will take pics of the nice disc adapters TTR400 crafted for me in full sunshine

TimV840 · « **Reply #219 on:** July 14, 2011, 12:09:17 PM »

Haha! We only teased you because you don't need that thing on. It's meant to warn everyone else that anything can happen when you come up on a rider wearing one of those vests. You are far from that stage buddy. It is fun to watch a "vest" pass some of the faster regulars though.

TimV

Quote from: bwaller on July 14, 2011, 10:05:33 AM

Hey Sam, the association likes newbies wear one for at least the first three outings. You know me I don't break any rules. I wore it the first race and practise Saturday. All my pit pals (especially Tim here) gave me such a hard time I forgot to wear it later.

bwaller · « **Reply #220 on:** July 14, 2011, 04:10:10 PM »

TG, I can't argue with you or the pros but I decided early on I wanted a folding peg. A short stiff, solid mounted peg may wear down and protect levers/pedals, but I have seen several crashes end badly because they dig in then release and the momentum causes the bike to roll or flip with more damage. Or the peg breaks. I'd rather have them fold & the bike only slide, hope I'm right.

I admit I see more solid pegs in the pits, but sometimes wonder if it's an easier way to mount them.

I just checked with AHRMA & USCRA rulebooks and they appear to allow folding pegs too.

Good Luck this weekend Yos.

kayaker43 · « **Reply #221 on:** July 14, 2011, 04:51:40 PM »

I imagine a folding peg with delrin on the bottom so it becomes a slider when folded?

Doh,........ I should have patented that

bwaller · « **Reply #222 on:** September 04, 2011, 07:30:11 AM »

This coming weekend is our final race of the season. There is a db102 limit so I need to take a plug chop with my smaller baffle in case the 2" doesn't conform. I hope I don't need to re-write the jetting manual as a result. Otherwise the bike ran well last outing & I feel it's good to go. I did resolve the footpeg issue.

This is a much tighter track closer to residential and there is no action until 10am. As a result we'll only have fifteen minutes of practise in order to run the schedule on time. I've never raced here and have only quessed at what final gearing should be. It will be a steep learning curve.

Good Luck to TG, he's off racing this weekend.

Bill/BentON Racing · « **Reply #223 on:** September 04, 2011, 07:52:30 AM »

B.Go have some fun and kick azz!

Now all your hard work starting to pay.Enjoy,you deserve it!

Bill

Tintop · « **Reply #224 on:** September 13, 2011, 05:03:02 AM »

Quote from: bellcow54 on September 04, 2011, 07:52:30 AM

B.Go have some fun and kick azz! Now all your hard work starting to pay.Enjoy,you deserve it! Bill

Just heard from bw re his weekend, and Bill, he did kick azz big time.

News:

Author Topic: Let's go roadracing...continuing saga (Read 199735 times)