Author Topic: Dwell meter recommendation?  (Read 2166 times)

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Offline cookindaddy

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Dwell meter recommendation?
« on: March 03, 2011, 01:52:44 pm »
Which dwell meter do you recommend for setting up a SOHC4?
George with a black 78 CB750K (in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada)

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 02:00:44 pm »
I'd look for a DMM that also has a Tach/Dwell function (usually they call them automotive DMM or engine analyzer like http://www.beihan.cn/uploadFiles/2008314133915399.pdf). But if you can find a cheap analog one, it's also OK. Sometimes an analog meter is nicer to work with.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 02:04:30 pm by Deltarider »
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Offline cookindaddy

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 03:07:38 pm »
Thanks.
I have a few good multi meters but none have automotive functions.
Do you use this particular one yourself on your SOHC4 to set dwell?
George with a black 78 CB750K (in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada)

Offline dave500

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 11:45:22 pm »
im with delta,i have a couple of half decent digital multi meters,i bought one especially for automotive work and it covers everything nearly,has a temp probe and duty cycle,wasnt expensive and now its the one i use the most,i use it on honda points etc,its a cheap digitor brand,about 70 bucks,pro ones are really expensive,what ever you buy throw the battery that came with it away and use a high quality one.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 12:25:23 am by dave500 »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 12:43:20 am »
Mine happens to be an old model (Appa 23). Besides the usual DMM functions, it has tach (high and low, both useless IMO) and dwell (in both o and %). Helas, no temperature function. It has been with me for some 20 years now and has travelled where ever I went. It has also been used by friends and always worked well. So far replaced the 9v battery twice and it's fuse after a mistake I made (warning: after using hi amps mode, do not forget to bring the probes back to the VΩ socket before you start measuring voltages!). It's water resistant and for me rugged enough.
BTW, it's funny the american way of measuring dwell in % (duty cycle so to speak) seems to have disappeared somewhat. IMO it's still the best way as you only have to switch to % and you can forget about the number of cilinders.
For those that prefer the dynamic procedure and use a dwellmeter, here is a tip.
Years ago I have attached two ‘blind’ extra wires on my coils (12V-) both with a female connector at their end. I had them lying aroud, so why not? Once you have set your timing correctly, these wires allow quick diagnoses later on.
Remember or write down your dwellangle (1&4 and 2&3) for future reference. Almost all changes in ignitiontiming originate at the contactbreakers. When the dwell changes, so does the timing. When you suspect the timing is off, simply connect the dwellmeter to the extra lead 1&4 or 2&3 and you can verify if dwellangle is still the same or has changed. You can now set the timing by adjusting the contactbreakers till your dwellmeter reeds the same digits as you had before. Less screws to work on, less screws you can ruin. ;D
It’s important that those female connectors are well shielded to avoid groundcontact.
I have had these wires attached for years now. What I like is that I can check really quick without even to remove the ignitioncover.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 07:46:15 am by Deltarider »
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Offline dave500

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 01:04:24 am »
good improvement to your wiring delta,id still like to shine the timing light on them,two screws on the cover aint exactly hard,i run electronic,the points breaker plate i have ive used little stainless allen key bolts everywhere.

Offline Skunk Stripe

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 05:18:20 am »
Another nice thing about dwell/tachs is the tach is pretty sensitive and you can use when you tune your idle mix.

Offline cookindaddy

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 05:38:05 am »
Yes, I was wondering about that. The bike's tach certainly is not sensitive enough and I have a separate old analog tach that is not sensitive enough. Still looking for brand recommendations. Thanks. George
George with a black 78 CB750K (in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada)

Offline Skunk Stripe

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 06:15:00 am »
I have a sears dwell/tach that has worked very well. It is analog and I really like that better. I just like reading analog more than digital, at least for dwell and rpm.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 07:32:47 am »
Quote
I have a sears dwell/tach that has worked very well. It is analog and I really like that better. I just like reading analog more than digital, at least for dwell and rpm.
Having worked with both I agree. RPM in digital is useless.
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Offline cookindaddy

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 07:37:55 am »
When you are adjusting the carb sync, aren't you looking for very small changes in RPM? I don't have a digital RPM/dwell meter but I would imagine that with a digital tach, the extra apparent resolution might be an advantage but it probably jumps around quite a bit? Do they have averagers/integrators built in? Maybe it would be better to measure the time between firings instead of the RPM to gage the small speed changes?
George with a black 78 CB750K (in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada)

Offline lrutt

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 07:44:05 am »
I know for me, I need an old analogue that just does the basic stuff, but most importantly, can work with positive ground systems. This key to me as I have 2 Triumphs, 1 Norton, and 1 old MG that are all positive ground.

The digital ones won't support that, just an FYI. So for the most flexibility keep that in mind. As for syncing, 4 vac gauges is the thing to use, setting idle speed to what is good for your bike. I've never found it comfortable to try and have my SOHC 4 idle below 1k RPMs. The brit twins will but the 4 struggles (slaps that primary chain around)
06 Harley Sporster 1200C, 06 Triumph Scrambler, 01 Ducati Chromo 900, 01 Honda XR650L, 94 Harley Heritage, 88 Honda Hawk GT, 84 Yamaha Virago 1000, 78 Honda 750K w/sidecar, 77 Moto Guzzi Lemans 850, 76 Honda CB750K, 73 Norton 850, 73 Honda Z50, 70 & 65 Honda Trail 90, 70 & 71 Triumph 650s, 65 Honda 305 Dream, 81 Honda 70 Passport, 70 Suzuki T250II, 71 Yamaha 360 RT1B, 77 BMW R75/7, 75 Honda CB550K, 70 Honda CT70

Offline cookindaddy

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 07:54:25 am »
Yes, if one has positive ground machines that is an important factor. Fortunately for me, I do not.

I do have a Morgan carb tune to sync the carbs but there is part of the tune up where you are looking for small speed changes. I haven't done it since last year so don't remember the sequence but I will be doing it again shortly after changing the points and condensers. That is why I am asking about the dwell meter and tach.

Thanks.
George with a black 78 CB750K (in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada)

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 07:57:41 am »
Quote
good improvement to your wiring delta
Actually it was a first step for the engine monitor or engine guard (mentioned elsewhere in this forum) that I had in mind but never finished. I guess I'm too dumb for that. Had hope to find members in this forum that would pick up the idea. I still believe you can make a killing with it.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 10:00:07 am by Deltarider »
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Dwell meter recommendation?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 08:01:05 am »
Quote
... there is part of the tune up where you are looking for small speed changes.
Forget it, it won't work. By looking for a 'best' idle you'll end up with a poor acceleration. Forget it.
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