Topic: Flipping lower legs relocates calipers behind forks, benefits?

[754]

 I gotta call BS on the dimished performance.. Not sure but the factory may have put theirs behind on the CRs
 At any rate they are swivel adjust brakes and will self align if the hanger is close to in line, in either direction..
 I know many that have turned them around, and never heard of anyone going back.
 Unless you are fairly stock running double brace fender, they look like hell up front..

[faux fiddy]

"decreased performance is guarateed"  huh?

Cite required. Can't understand why or how you can say that without an IMO qualification.

Maybe I will re-phrase that  as :

The best brakes are going to be solidly mounted in an exact place (no floating spring system, regardless of mounting either side) and will be clamping down on a solidly mounted disc in a precisely measured place between the discs.

If you want better performing breaks breaks, you start with that.

[MCRider]

"decreased performance is guarateed"  huh?

Cite required. Can't understand why or how you can say that without an IMO qualification.

Maybe I will re-phrase that  as :

The best brakes are going to be solidly mounted in an exact place (no floating spring system, regardless of mounting either side) and will be clamping down on a solidly mounted disc in a precisely measured place between the discs.

If you want better performing breaks breaks, you start with that.

That's a little better. And while i agree that would be a more elegant design, I still doubt there would be a difference in braking performance...IMO. 

Anyway, putting the brakes on the back is not and never was, in this thread, an issue of braking performance, but of handling. And I think that is an improvement...IMO...and many others' as well.   

[Flying J]

I would personally like to see a picture if you have one handy. Im seriously considering switching sides for looks if nothing else.

This is the setup I ran for decades and 10s of thousands of miles. The CB750 has the pivoting arm that the caliper mounts on, with the spring and screw adjuster. Granted the design was for a pull effect, but pushing on the pivot pin makes no difference. I looked at a 500K2 and the design is virtually identical, just some small differences in the shape of the parts.
Pardon the chrome makes it hard to see details.   

Is that an excel shouldered rim or is it just their normal dimpled rim

[MCRider]

Its the "normal" rim.  I ran the shouldered ones for many years. After the novelty wears off, they are hard to clean. And the shouldered rim can present interference problems with getting the brake bracket bolts in and out, especially if you widen it and/or downsize as that is a 2.15 x 18" vs a stock 1.85 x 19". Not like that is a high maintenance item, I'm just saying...

[Tintop]

Before I decided to reverse my calipers I spoke to a number of 'old timers'.  The consensus was there is no difference in braking performance.  Honda brakes are Honda brakes.  However there are handling benefits as mentioned above.  The most important ones not mentioned were why I made the change.  Stability under braking, and reduced sticksion.  The stability comes because the braking force is acting to 'push' the forks forward, were as with the calipers in front they act to 'pull' the forks back.  This 'push' also appears to reduce sticksion, giving better suspension compliance under braking.  I was also informed that the adjuster bolt is not needed in either application.  Its sole purpose is the reduce drag, it has no other effect.  One important thing to keep in mind is that the pads are suppose to have a bevel on the leading edge (my EBC's had none!).  When the calipers are reversed this becomes the trailing edge, so a new bevel should be added to the new leading edge.  The purpose is to prevent the leading edge from grabbing as the brakes are applied.

My reversed setup:

[MCRider]

Thank you tintop, appreciate the experience.

Yes its true you can run without the adjusters at all. What can happen is that after long distanes with no braking, the A pad can withdraw into the caliper, from road bumpiness acting on the calipers, further than with the adjuster, and it may take a pump or two to get it back out where it belongs. So running without is not recommended. But I've known of those who have.

[Tintop]

Thank you tintop, appreciate the experience.

Yes its true you can run without the adjusters at all. What can happen is that after long distanes with no braking, the A pad can withdraw into the caliper, from road bumpiness acting on the calipers, further than with the adjuster, and it may take a pump or two to get it back out where it belongs. So running without is not recommended. But I've known of those who have.

Total agree MCRider.  I wasn't advocating running without, just pointing out that they are there for alignment / positioning as you indicated.

edit: should have added that it was racers who were running without the adjuster.  Which makes sense when you factor in pad wear.  Without the adjuster to maintain the 'correct position', as the pads wear they will continue to ride close to the disk.  Pad retraction would be a non issue because of the constant brake use each lap.

[MCRider]

"Pad retraction would be a non issue because of the constant brake use each lap." Yes that was a point I meant to make and forgot.

BTW: your bike looks way cool!

[Tintop]

"Pad retraction would be a non issue because of the constant brake use each lap." Yes that was a point I meant to make and forgot.

BTW: your bike looks way cool!

Thanks MCRider.  I guess the majority of the benefits have been covered.  One gotcha that I found was when running an over size 18", and a fixed brace, the tire is a very, very tight squeeze between the calipers.

[Retro Rocket]

I have done this for years as well and there is NO decrease in braking performance at all, in fact it feels like it "tightens the front up a bit, maybe this is due to what others have mentioned about having the weight in the right place. Very rare to see a bike with front mounted calipers these days and if it were better in front,  they would all be mounted this way. I also think it improves braking feel as well as the pads are now grabbing the disc before the fork so the disc has to fight to keep going forward rather than dragging against the disc out front in the stock position....

Mick

[754]

 I was wrong on CRS maybe being behind, but they did come out in the dawn of Japan disc brakes and things changed a lot in a few years..
 tree fiddy, I an going to suggest you perhaps study brake theory, you  seem to miss the fact that a single acting caliper cannot be solid mounted and work.. double acting surely can..

[Tintop]

I was wrong on CRS maybe being behind, but they did come out in the dawn of Japan disc brakes and things changed a lot in a few years..
 tree fiddy, I an going to suggest you perhaps study brake theory, you  seem to miss the fact that a single acting caliper cannot be solid mounted and work.. double acting surely can..

+1 754.  It either has to 'float' by way of a pivoting mount (CB's), or on its mounts (modern cars).  The other option for float is the rotor.  Either way something must float in the system.  If not any misalginment, or warpage will be transmitted back.  On cars it comes as a pulsing in the pedal, on bikes a head shake.

[Flying J]

Dont forget the 750F. It is solid mounted and floats on pins. My rotor are warped. It pulses but not at the brake lever, the whole bike pulses.