Topic: How important are the Honda Tools? and honing question.

[ntm1974]

First post on the forum, I've been learning a lot by reading and doing searches but I haven't been able to find anything about finding official Honda tools or how important it is to have the official tools.

Namely, I am starting to pull the engine off my 74 cb350F.  Will I need to Valve Lifter tool (07031-32901) or the valve guide removal tool (07046-32901)?  If so, is there an alternate source for the tools?  I've been keeping an eye on ebay but haven't had any luck.

Also, I haven't been able to find a piston ring compressor that will  work for all 4 valves at the same time....any ideas?

I have low compression in one of my cylinders (60psi).  I put a little bit of oil in that cylinder and reran the test and got a reading of 160psi.  I am suspecting that I will need new rings and to hone the cylinder.  How will I know if I am going to need oversized rings?  I worked in a machine shop many years ago and am comfortable handling hand tools but I do not know anything about engine repair. 

I see the tolerance for the cylinder I.D. is 1.8504-1.8508 and the piston skirt O.D. is 1.8492-1.8500.  I also noticed that the smallest size oversized ring is .25 (i'm assuming millimeters), does that mean that I move up to that ring when my tolerance between my cylinder ID and my piston is over .25mm? 

Also, if I am totally out in left field, please let me know.  It is never that stuff that you don't know that gets you, its the stuff you never knew existed that kills ya.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[MoMo]

Was this a running bike with low compression? If it was a non-runner, you may be jumping the gun with a tear down. Welcome to the forum and go to the new member section to introduce yourself...Larry

[faux fiddy]

First  comment is don't fix what ain't broke.

Namely, I am starting to pull the engine off my 74 cb350F.  Will I need to Valve Lifter tool (07031-32901) or the valve guide removal tool (07046-32901)?  If so, is there an alternate source for the tools?  I've been keeping an eye on ebay but haven't had any luck.

Also, I haven't been able to find a piston ring compressor that will  work for all 4 valves at the same time....any ideas?

Well for the first question is how much of this type of activity that your wife calls "insane" will you be doing?

 This can be answered with a dichotomy which is do you want a collection of spring compressors or do you have room for an arbour press. The 350's are impossibly small for the $20 harbout freight compressor, et.al.

Can you machine a piece  like a deep walled socket with slots that you can install the keepers with? Or find something like it that is already around?

An arbor press might be in your future.

(Find a friend with one and maintain the relationship)

 Second, the rings can be slipped into the bores with just a bit of any favorite brand of oil (tablespoon or so  ) on each piston. Rotate the motor to where the inside two are up first and work them on. Then rotate the motor as you lower the bores with the two inside piston's downstroke. Be patient, back and forth, left and right and massage them in. When it finally happens you will be amazed how easy it was and still not know for sure what motion you used.


The bore is tapered, unless it has been bored to death.

[faux fiddy]

Honing is a clean up resurfacing of the bore. It helps the rings seat whether new or re-used.

If the cylinder has been bored over honing smooths out the machined surface. 

 If it is not machined over, it helps scuff the glaze off.

[faux fiddy]

[bryanj]

(1) you need a generic valve spring compressor and the guide remover is nothing more than a stepped drift
(2) do 2 pistons at a time not all 4 at once
(3) oversize rings fit on oversize pistons in a re-bored cylinder, if new standard rings have too large a gap it needs reboring (all 4 complete with piston kits)

[ntm1974]

(1) you need a generic valve spring compressor and the guide remover is nothing more than a stepped drift
(2) do 2 pistons at a time not all 4 at once
(3) oversize rings fit on oversize pistons in a re-bored cylinder, if new standard rings have too large a gap it needs reboring (all 4 complete with piston kits)

1. what generic valve spring compressor would you recommend?

3. Am I understanding this properly: oversized piston rings will not make up for a cylinder and piston that are outside the recommended tolerance(instead I would have to purchase an oversized piston and oversized rings?)  Also: what constitutes "too large a gap?"

Thanks for all the replies.
 

[camelman]

I have the same bike, and have used a few different valve spring compressors.  I bought the following one a while back, and won't use anything else now.  http://www.amazon.com/Tusk-Valve-Spring-Compressor/dp/B0039L9GAC/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1299393158&sr=8-16


Try starting that engine up before you go through a teardown.  The rings in the weak cylinder might open up.  I'd try pouring some "seafoam" into the cylinder first for a couple days, and then give it a go.  If it runs, then let the engine heat up and cool down a few times, and then check your compression again.  If it is up where you want it, then you are done.  If not, then start on the engine rebuild.

Don't buy any piston ring compressors.  The bottom of the cylinders is tapered, so the rings are slowly compressed as the pistons slide into the cylinder.  Stagger the pistons so two go in at once, as mentioned before, and it is a cinch.

If you pull the engine apart and replace your rings, then check your cylinders for roundness first.  They need to be round within a couple thousandths front to back and side to side at the top, middle, and bottom.  A machine shop could check them for you.

If your cylinders are round, then honing can be done at a machine shop, by buying a honing stone at an auto-parts store (just get the small units that fit into your drill), or by hand.  You really just need to scuff up the cylinder walls a bit to get the rings to seat.  There is a bit of an art to it, but check back when you are at that point so we can weigh in on the health of your cylinder walls.

Good luck, and welcome,
Camelman

[bryanj]

The ring end gap will be specified in the manual, which as the 350 never came to UK i dont have a copy of sorry.