Topic: CB550 Cranks but will not start!!!!!!

[cd550]

Well I have done all the research I can on the forum, and have done the following myself;
>Valve check
>Carb Clean
>Fuel Line Check (make sure gas is getting to where it’s supposed to)
>Battery seems good (is it seems low on distilled aqua though passed lower level)
>have done the spark plug check.

Purchased this CB550 1974 F in 2010 in which it was running fairly fine, other than adjusting the cam chain and fixing the idle issue (on start-up I have to keep on the throttle). Over the winter I have taken painted the tank and fairings have cleaned the engine up visually and now taken the original exhaust and put a shorty on in which is a straight pipe. I have also changed the old (pod) filters and placed tighter (35mm) pod filters. Currently my oil is a 20w-50 and weather is about 40deg F.
Now my problem! I go to fire it up and it cranks great but will not actually start. I have tried the following suggestion from member twotired with no luck. What could be the problem, I’m at my wits end, and ready to trailer it to the local mechanic.

[billybobobrain]

Spray a little ether in the carbs while turning the motor over with the starter, if it fires go through the carbs again if it doesn't, you have an electrical issue. Try adjusting the points, and static timing the ignition plate.

A compression check would be a good idea as well.

[whdtt]

I was in your exact situation.  Its very, very hard and frustrating just to get to and past this step.  I did everything imaginable, and still it sat there and cranked away.  I was very close to junking the thing. 

However, a member here gave me some sound advise.  KISS.  Keep it simple stupid.  Just to get it started, it only needs 3 things: fuel, oxygen, and spark.  For me, it was all three: my carbs were plugged, even though i just cleaned them, 1-4 cylinders were sparking at the points, but he condenser was crap, and I don't think it was choking enough to start, as I didn't have butterflies on my carbs at that time. 

So, even though you say its getting fuel and spark I would:
Check the plugs; do they smell like gas and/or are wet?  If no, your jets are plugged.  Get new ones, I cleaned them 2x and they still were plugged. 
Do the plugs REALLY spark against the engine block when you turn it over? Or are just the points sparking?  Spark mean a nice, blue spark, not a little "crackle".  If your battery is dying, it might not have enough juice to fire the plugs. 
Are you creating a vacuum? The fuel needs to get to the plugs, if its just sitting in the float bowls, you're not going anywhere.  Make sure your boots (carbs, not footwear) are on all the way.

I have noticed too, that even with a charged battery, good fuel flow and compression that these engines just don't start well when cold.  If I haven't ridden in a couple days, it takes a good couple minutes to fire everything up. 

[Grabcon]

Other than what is mentioned above I would replace the spark plug caps and clip the plug wires about a 1/4" before putting on the new caps. These 4 cylinder Honda are rock solid. typically if you got gas and spark it is something simple. My sons will not start cold if you touch the throttle. I just pull the choke and hit the starter. If you turn the throttle a hair it will not start.

[cd550]

Thanks very much for all the input and advise. I know that the spark from the plugs is a nice blue flame and not a crackle. And with the plugs I do have some smell of gas with some dapness. I will give it a go with the carb clean again and other pointers mentioned.

[bender01]

Have you adjusted your idle speed adjuster? I forgot to turn it up a few times after a carb cleaning.  Just something simple to check.

[OldSchool_IsCool]

You may have a good spark, but is it at the right time?  Check to make sure you haven't gotten your plug wires crossed.  Assuming you are using points, the blue wire will feed the coil that fires the #1 and #4 plugs.  Yellow feeds #2 and #3.

With a 12v lamp, buzzer or volt meter connected between the blue wire and ground, turn the key on and the kill switch on.  slowly rotate the crank.  Does the lamp, buzzer of meter change from on to off when the F1.4 mark aligns with the case pointer (look through the hole at the top of the points plate)?

[whdtt]

Thanks very much for all the input and advise. I know that the spark from the plugs is a nice blue flame and not a crackle. And with the plugs I do have some smell of gas with some dapness. I will give it a go with the carb clean again and other pointers mentioned.

Hmm, then it really does have to be something simple, or just a cold engine.  Its getting spark, and getting fuel.  That should be enough to at least get you fired up, even if its only a half the cylinders firing, or as mentioned, you could have reversed something by accident.  Give it a few minutes to fire up.  Play with the choke and the throttle.  I need a LOT of gas and choke to get mine fired up from dead cold, the other member can't even give her a twist...it could be just a little thing like this. 

Beleive me, I feel your pain.  I've spend 3 years on a "road worthy" bike, and still haven't got it right.  My neighbors have learned a whole new vocabulary coming from my backyard in those 3 years...most of the time its while i crank away. 

[TwoTired]

Need: air/fuel mixture + compression + spark timed correctly.  Engine MUST run.  If not running, you are missing one of these.
You have to find what is missing.  We can help once you narrow it down.

Cheers,

[Gaither]

Re AGM battery:

My 500 was always very hard to start cold. Many times I would run the battery down before it started.. After warm-up, it would then start quickly for the rest of the day. 

***This continued until I installed a new Yuasa AGM battery (#CYTX1X14AH).  It has 360 CCA. I bought it from Interstate Battery @$64.95 with 2-year replacement warranty. They may have a store near you, if anyone is interested. I like dealing locally.

***This battery spins the starter/engine like a champ and the engine starts amazingly quickly cold. I was surprised. How long it will continue to do so remains to be seen. The old battery never spun it over cold or hot as well as this AGM does.

I'm think the old battery (kept on a Tender) "was turning the engine fast enough to start but was "starving" the ignition in the process. I never checked for volts or amps as I was always in a rush to get it started and on the road.

With that thought in mind, I ran across a theory involving weak batteries in "Wing World" magazine (Gold Wings). Here it is:

***If a battery is "marginal", it will turn the starter and engine (for a short time) but starve the ignition in the process. Under these circumstances, don't attempt to turn the starter for any lengthy period. Rather, get the engine turning good and release the starter button. While it is still turning the voltage/amps will immediately revert to the ignition and the engine will start. With our bikes, it would be prudent to kick it over a few times prior to using the starter (like it says in the Owner's Manual for a cold engine). This would give the above theory a better chance to work.

I wonder what Two-Tired will think of this theory.

I didn't see this until I had installed the new AGM battery. So, I haven't tried it. However, it just might work [?].

In any event, I'm tickled with this new AGM battery. 'Hope it continues to make me happy!
 

[TwoTired]

A starting battery will experience voltage sag when a load is placed on it.  Usually, more load = more sag.  Starting motors generally place more load on the battery than the rest of the bike's electricals.  As a battery ages, it has more difficulty gathering and pushing the electrons out the terminal posts, and this leads to greater voltage sag.

Our stock bike's coils need a certain voltage in order to store enough energy in the coils for the spark event.  A sagging, old battery may approach or go below this minimum.  But, an old, sluggish battery is not the only concern.  Yes, a new battery raises the min voltage at the coils.  But, many of these old bikes lose Voltage to the coils, via poor/worn switch contacts and connector losses.  Such a bike would require a fresh new battery, more frequently, to restore quick starting voltage.  Those who buy newer hotter batteries to overcome the bike's wiring, switch, and connector losses may proclaim the battery fixed all the ills.  But, the ills may actually still be there, just waiting for the new battery to weaken (and it will eventually). 

Removing the starter load will certainly help the coils receive higher voltage from the battery.  I remember extending the "life" of a battery for two years just by forgoing electric start, in favor of kick start.  The new battery was like adding a luxury item to the bike.  (Oooo push button start!)   It also helped that the bike had a lighting switch, which I could turn off for starting, or when the battery seemed low on power.  My "gauge" during run ops was the flash rate of the turn signals, with and without the brake light on.  If they didn't flash or flash very slowly, I knew I had to raise the engine RPM or turn some things off.

Cheers,

[cameron]

Re AGM battery:

In any event, I'm tickled with this new AGM battery. 'Hope it continues to make me happy!
 

I couldnt agree more with this.
I had the same story... my AGM solved everything.

PS: it's still running strong, TT! It been a whole year now! Started up 1st try the other morning... 39 degrees out and everything! My girl's 2009 subaru was dead.. but my sweet 550 had no problems!

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=80127.msg897494#msg897494

[cd550]

A wealth of knowledge on this forum and all of it was very much appreciated. As mentioned by twotired, I am going to try to narrow this down and in doing so taking into account the points made here. Thanks again, and I will let you know shortly.

Cheers

[luap]

are the small set screw tight on the intake manifold if you synched the carbs after you rebuild them did you posibly leave those screw out?
I just had a starting issure which was a simple stupid overlocked mistake I was off by a couple teeth on the cam chain. Siriusconinc.com sell new jets pretty cheap, hang in there man

[Gaither]

Two-Tired

All points well taken. And, I admit the old battery was marginal.

Thanks to you and others here, All "gang" (poly enclosed) terminals are clean and greased, the fuse clips are bright and shiny, new Ign Sw, "Popwood Ground" is installed (without these things, the bike would still be useless!). I still appreciate all the help. I have not cleaned many of the individual "bullet" connectors (tho I should).

These things were done well before installing the new AGM battery. As you point out, we'll have to wait and see how long this battery affords quick cold starting. When it begins to go, I ain't proud - I'll report it here. If it comes soon, it wont be my first mistake! Meanwhile, I'm very happy with this battery (til it begins to give trouble).

I fully realize the Jury is still out on AGM batteries. But for $64.95 form a local, reputable dealer, (Interstate Battery) I just couldn't resist. (I'm using one of their batteries in a Ford Crown Vic successfully - NOT an AGM.)

Thanks