Topic: What defines a "cafe" bike?

[nomad]

Found this 550 in the "For Sale" section linking to a CL post...



It seems to me that by basically removing the fenders, putting lower bars on and sticking a flat seat with a bubble-ish rear end on it, you can call it a cafe.  Yes, I know the bike above has had more than that done to it, but I'm speaking in general terms.

So, is it this look that's "cafe" or is it more than that?  It also seems that "cafe" attached to an ad means the buyer is looking for more $$$ (sometimes but not always deserved depending on the bike).  I'm hearing that word being loosely used a lot lately and was just wondering.

Mine's not going to be a true original restoration, but it won't look like what appears to a be "cafe" bike either.  If anything I'd say I'm shooting for "modified stock."

Does anyone else think "cafe" is being overused these days?

[Radam]

As long as you can make it to the bridge and back before the song is over it's a cafe. 

[flybox1]

i think Gordon summed it up pretty well here 

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=84697.0

[apex_seeking]

Does anyone else think "cafe" is being overused these days?

^+1.

It's the "hip" label that people are attaching to anything vintage, with a CB in front of it, if it's missing fenders, has a modded seat, etc. I've seen stockers labeled cafe just because it could be coverted into a cafe bike.

CL is an amazing way to see what is trending up or down.

[nomad]

i think Gordon summed it up pretty well here  

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=84697.0

 

[Anti-Johnny]

Hasn't the term "cafe" always been a broad term? I don't know what you expect to see, some sort of special equipment so that it either is or is not cafe? From what I understand its just removing weight and streamlining it a bit. It's easy to do and changes the look. Cheap custom etc. They're still rare where I'm from. I guess I could make a similar argument about every mustang with a cobra body kit or lifted truck that is always sparkling clean.

[c(b)hris]

I think it's a term for bikes that use coffee instead of oil.
And in case you're wondering, dark roast in colder temperatures, arabica in the summer.

[Anti-Johnny]

I use a columbian blend adds some hp and is good for moderate climates.

[DavePhipps]

I thought that cafe meant making it faster, lighter, and hopefully better handling than stock, so you could make it back to the cafe before the song was over. Basically a vintage race replica for the street. Clubman bars and a seat hump don't quite fit in that defiition, but they do give the look that people associate with Cafe bikes.

[Roach]

if you look back to old vintage cafe racers . IE norton, bsa, triumph, Vincent, they all either had home made clip ons or clubmans. they got rid of all the unnecessary parts changed the jetting played around with the exhaust tried to make them into at the time modern race bikes. it was a total culture thing in Briton just after the war time. The kids raced because it was there form of lashing out against society lots of kids died doing it. It was all about doing the TON.

where in the states in never made it here until now. people here were always wanting to stretch out there bikes like easy rider and cruising around.. it has to do with location too. here roads are barely ever winding like they do over seas... the trend has come around full circle now its are sides turn....

the main difference between here and there is there are not to many Brit bikes around.. so we go for the Jap bikes you can get the looks without the leaks that you find under many nortons or triumphs.

in the end it is very cloudy line on what is and isn't a "cafe racer"


is throwing a set of clubmans on and putting a seat on called cafe...in my eyes no
to me it is more of a life style of the rocker culture...do i consider my bike to be a true cafe racer no not at all but i do consider it to have some of the features and looks of one
to me a true cafe racer is your Triton, Manxis, Nortons, BSA, Vincents. the originated where the whole thing started

[TwoTired]

I believe "cafe" means to severely reduce the overall utility of a bike.
It is less comfortable to ride, almost torturous for long distances.
Riding in rain is way more miserable, if even possible.

The "cafe" bike generally becomes more "special purpose", which is perceived as out of the ordinary and appeals to the "extreme anything" crowd in an effort to set them apart from the routine many of them have in life, and "one up" others in their peer group.  The "cafe" bike's special purpose is often simply a fashion statement.  Owning one implies mechanic and engineering skill, without the bother of actually learning those skills. 
The "cafe" is a very short distance travel machine with almost no way to carry items needed for an overnight stay away from base garage, not to mention cross country travel, without a support vehicle of some kind.
It is very seldom tested for actual performance increase in any operating regime.  The facade of a limited use "racer" is the driving goal and major sales point of "cafe".

"Cafe" also implies loner status as passengers are in no way accommodated.

I also agree that "cafe" is the current generation customizing bikes in a distinctly stylish way as the prior generation customized their bikes into "choppers".  But, the style is distinctly different for the current generation to call their own.

For the record, I have seen some very nice customized bikes "cafe" and otherwise.  Seen a lot of posers, too.

But, in today's marketing/advertising pervasive world, the value is in the label.  "Cafe" is a label that sells in these times. IMO

Cheers,

[singedebile]

you can call anything you want a cafe,

to me it can even be a bike with nothing but clubmans added...   its a bike that someone rides allot and enthusiastically, they may not have the money to do all the modifications they want to it (and often have started with a semi abandoned bike they rebuilt from the ground up), but as they have funds they will likely replace bits and pieces not for a visual effect but because after spending uncounted hours ridding they notice things they would like to change. Things like removing 'un-needed' parts are a cheap way to lighten up your bike and reduce it to its core meaning to you, which is a minimalist tool with which to ride aggressively. Making the bike a single seater I believe is a fairly big statement as it relates to your intent and the sacrifice of no longer using the bike in more utilitarian ways.. again reducing the bike to the core purpose for which you use it.

A cafe bike is not something that someone has dumped 5x the price of the bike (which was nearly mint when they got it) with bolt on "cafe" parts and is afraid to try and touch the pegs with it when the conditions are right.

A cafe bike is ridden hard, is modified out of need to better suit the riders purpose..  our bikes stock are not intended to be ridden this way, they were meant to appeal to a wide audiance.. of course it does not take much to really refocus these bikes if thats what your after.

+1 TwoTired and Roach

[Roach Carver]

you ride it to the cafe. I have a cafe bike, a post office bike, and a hardware store bike. I recently sold my bakery bike. I hope to someday have a nice dinner bike.

[apex_seeking]

you ride it to the cafe. I have a cafe bike, a post office bike, and a hardware store bike. I recently sold my bakery bike. I hope to someday have a nice dinner bike.

I like that. That means I have a work truck AND a work bike!

[BeSeeingYou]

I always thought they should at least have a place to carry some food. It's a cafe bike, right?   I do like Roach Carver's idea of a bakery bike.  Probably with a cup holder to hold the coffee so I can dunk my donuts while riding.  

[Steve_K]

Looking back through time, a cafe was today's sportbike.  I have had sportbikes since the late 80's and I have loved them.  In the 70's I had  Gentlemens Express type 550 but no engine mods, and it was a great bike.  Well thought out seat, peg, and handlebar location and you have the comfortable ride.  I have done 500 miles in a day on VFR.  My modified GIXXER I can ride it for 250 mile days.   My 550(stock) gives me 150 miles before my bottom says STOP!  When I ride a cruiser type bike, I am not comfortable with the riding position.
Maybe my body suits these kinds of bikes.  My head sure loves them.
I ride them in the rain and in the cold and heat.  Bikes are supposed the be FUN.  
Steve

[scottly]

Looking back through time, a cafe was today's sportbike.  

1+ The term "cafe racer" was used at least as far back as the mid-70s. You couldn't buy one from the dealer; you had to build it.

I took my bike on a 3500 mile, 10 day trip; see attached pic. Once the back pack was removed, I could also carry as passenger.

I once borrowed a friend's DOHC 750: I found the upright riding position very uncomfortable at freeway speeds from the strain of holding my head and body against the wind.  

Rode it in the rain often, as it was my main transportation when I lived in Sunnyvale, CA.

Oh, and I did actually have a cup-holder, so I could carry hot coffee to work at midnight.
 

[Bodi]

Any bike with a cup holder.

[domer]

its what ever you want it to be. #$%* what anyone else thinks. my bike has parts that would fit any "category" but at the end of the day its nothing but my bike, you can call it cafe, or a heap of #$%*... ill just smile and nod. 

[SteveD CB500F]

The term goes back to the 60's in London.

In a way, TT is correct in that the bikes were modified to go fast in short bursts (and to look good)

The Ace Cafe in London claims the term as the Rockers would race along the North Circular Road (not a dual carraigeway in those days), around the Hanger Lane Roundabout (now a "gyratory system"...) and back to the cafe before the record on the juke box finished.

Given that 60's singles lasted about 2.5 minutes and the route is just over 2 miles, I'm not sure how many actually made it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafe_racer

[Roach]

i recommend anyone who has not seen it watch "cafe society" its a great vid about ACE CAFE, the history of the ton up boys, rocker culture vs the mods, the bikes, 59 club, the bikes.....the bikes....and they talk to alot of old guys who were there during the first go around of the ace...

[srook]

I believe "cafe" means to severely reduce the overall utility of a bike.
It is less comfortable to ride, almost torturous for long distances.
Riding in rain is way more miserable, if even possible.

You're assuming every motorcycle should be built to run long distances and ride in the rain.  Actually you are describing a bike which could be said to sacrifice performance to afford some levels of comfort.  Are you the judge of a what a motorcycle is?  I forgot, you believe the factory and not the owner is the judge.

The point is that a motorcycle serves different purposes to different people but in the end remains a motorcycle whether its a cafe, chopper, tourer, cruiser, sportbike, dirtbike, enduro, or bobber.


Scott......who believes the owner of the machine decides what purpose it serves

[Gordon]

I believe "cafe" means to severely reduce the overall utility of a bike.
It is less comfortable to ride, almost torturous for long distances.
Riding in rain is way more miserable, if even possible.

You're assuming every motorcycle should be built to run long distances and ride in the rain.  Actually you are describing a bike which could be said to sacrifice performance to afford some levels of comfort.  Are you the judge of a what a motorcycle is?  I forgot, you believe the factory and not the owner is the judge.

The point is that a motorcycle serves different purposes to different people but in the end remains a motorcycle whether its a cafe, chopper, tourer, cruiser, sportbike, dirtbike, enduro, or bobber.


Scott......who believes the owner of the machine decides what purpose it serves

"Cafe" is a subjective term.  Just because one person's definition of it has negative connotations doesn't mean that person is wrong, or that someone who defines the term in more favorable ways is correct.  It's in the eye of the beholder. 

[seanbarney41]

My 750 will be comfortable and blow the doors of most cafe bikes easily, and still be able to do 1000 miles a day....
[/quote]wow Retro Rocket, didn't know you rode a cafe racer...

[srook]

Thats just plain rubbish, most Cafe's don't go any better than a stock looking bike

I didn't say that cafe racers go any better than a stock looking bike, you said they don't.  I said a bike built to run long distances and ride in the rain sacrifices performance in order to do that.  The stock CB750 is considered a UJM because of its ability to do many things.  Lloyd said that most changes toward the cafe style, from stock, result in a motorcycle with less utility.  I disagree.  The utility of a motorcycle is determined by the owner not the factory or some mythical contest of long distance rain riding.  And yes the stock CB750 sacrifices performance in order to accomodate 2 people comfortably.  It has longer heavier fenders to allow rain riding and not have streaks of water up your back or front.  It positions the rider upright rather than crouched low over the machine.  It has softer rear shocks so the passenger doesn't get bounced all over the place.  It absolutely sacrifices performance for a more comfortable experience.

As far your bike goes, is it stock or does it have a late model front end and swingarm on it?  Why did you do these mods if most performance mods result in a lower performing motorcycle?  Just becuase you don't have clip-ons and rearsets doesn't mean that your bike isn't modified to perform better than stock just like a cafe.  And I hate to put words in anyones mouth but I think Lloyd would say that you modified your bike for looks more than any performance objective becuase you didn't run any tests to compare the stock items to the new items.  Your seat of the pants feel doesn't count as a quantifiable test with real data.

"Cafe" is a subjective term.  Just because one person's definition of it has negative connotations doesn't mean that person is wrong, or that someone who defines the term in more favorable ways is correct.

So I shouldn't bother to debate it?

Scott