Author Topic: Filling dampening rod holes (Read 3015 times)

wannabridin · « **on:** March 11, 2011, 10:48:49 AM »

Ok, so I just went to buy some 15% silver brazing rods, abs 1/4 lb pack was $56!!! I can't afford that for filling in just 4 holes, so what are my alternatives?? Can I use JB weld?? Can I take them somewhere to get them done?? Help guys!!!

voxonda · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2011, 11:51:48 AM »

Sent them over

. Just busy 'tuning' a Egli front with CB750 internals.
Should be able to find someone nearby, I quess.

Rob

wannabridin · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:17:56 PM »

haha, Rob i would, but the delay for international shipping would be quite long!! i think i have enough brazing material to fill in the holes, they're a bit smaller than i remember!!

Kong · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:36:50 PM »

You got a welder? They are just steel tubes; open up the holes out a little bit, and then Zap! Smooth it off with a grinder and you're done. Alternatively you could do it all by hand. Simply drill the holes a little larger, tap them, locktite the hell out of two long screws and put them in until the bottomed out on the back side of the tube - then cut them off a little long, peen the tops down a bit, and file them smooth.

wannabridin · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:50:24 PM »

well i just filled the holes in. but i dropped the damper rod and i broke the freaking ring on top!!!

any idea where i can get a new one??? i'd rather not have to buy a whole new rod, but i guess if that's the case i'll do it...

*edit* - i found a set of forks on e-bay for $50 shipped. bought them in case i can't salvage what i have... HOPEFULLY i can somehow fix this piston ring! super glue???

jaguar · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2011, 01:16:04 PM »

the plastic ring?
you can get that new from honda

Kong · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2011, 01:52:38 PM »

What plastic ring?

Got a picture of what broke? Also, I don't think they are all the same, I know the oil locks came in two different lengths, what is the length of your damper tube?

wannabridin · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2011, 02:34:35 PM »

i'm talking about the bakelite ring on top of the tube. it's an angle cut sealing ring. it rides on the inside of the fork leg... a picture is attached of the good one.

i tried super gluing it back together which normally works quite well on bakelite, BUT it got stuck to the ID, and made itself quite stuck. the new set of legs should be here on wed or thurs, and i can just salvage that one. i looked at bike bandit and honda parts direct, and neither of them have this little ring because it's discontinued! i've tried looking online at various ring suppliers, but being as it's a bakelite material, it would be expensive for just one

Quote from: Kong on March 11, 2011, 01:52:38 PM

What plastic ring?

Got a picture of what broke? Also, I don't think they are all the same, I know the oil locks came in two different lengths, what is the length of your damper tube?

length = 8.125" approximately

Kong · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2011, 03:55:34 PM »

Oh, that thing!

Say a bad word; that don't look like something you're ever gonna find. If you can't get a match for it from the other front end you bought le me know and I'll pull my spare set (extended front end off the parts bike) apart and see if I have what you need.

wannabridin · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2011, 03:59:55 PM »

well i would need the whole rod, as you can't pull those super old seals off w/o damage... oh well! live and learn! i'll have some spare parts!

looks like i've successfully put together one fork leg, just gotta wait on the new parts before i can do the other one...

jaguar · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2011, 04:37:56 PM »

Really you can get them from Honda.
I bought new ones for my bike.
Took the old ones off without braking them too.

wannabridin · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2011, 04:40:06 PM »

i forgot to mention. this is for a goldwing front end swap. every place i've looked says the '75-77 gl1000 parts are discontinued...

stueveone · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2011, 06:51:45 PM »

Yes, you can buy that ring from bikebandit or any other Honda shop.

wannabridin · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2011, 08:01:55 PM »

Please show me!! I've looked at service Honda, bike bandit, Honda parts direct, Ron ayers and a few others, all discontinued! It's for a '76 GL1000 front end...

If I goofed, please correct me!!

jaguar · « **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2011, 08:09:08 PM »

i looked around.
nothing for the GL

rangelov · « **Reply #15 on:** March 11, 2011, 09:17:18 PM »

You live in the Metroplex. Call around to the places that make or sell seals. Someone should have something that will work. It is just a scarf cut seal. Motion Industries, etc.

You will need the bore size (tube ID), The groove diameter of the piston and the groove height. You can probably use a Teflon seal. It isn't a critical seal, plus the oil viscosity helps seal.

Good luck with the dual disc conversion.

stueveone · « **Reply #16 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:47:11 PM »

Ah, Jesus. Sorry. I need glasses. Didn't catch that GL modifier.

wannabridin · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2011, 11:13:00 PM »

I worked for a piston ring company last year as a manufacturing engineer, and rings like this (angle cut) are super easy to come by. But for the Bakelite material it's made of, that makes it very difficult to find! Not many companies make that. I could just go with Teflon, but only needing one ring makes it difficult too, unless they're willing to just give it to me!

I'm just going to wait until I get the new front end and salvage that piece, then make some calls when time isn't critical and try to get it replaced...

MRieck · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2011, 05:26:50 AM »

That material seems like Bakelite because it is old, hard and been immersed in oil. the new rings from Honda are white and softer. That split in there has a purpose and that is to increase the OD of the ring so it is larger than the top of the rod OD. Don't try and glue it together..it has to flex.

voxonda · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2011, 05:40:53 AM »

Hey G, Guess you've measured them and compared to the 750? I've got no experience with the GL's, but the piston rings for the 750 are still available..

Rob

MRieck · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2011, 06:59:34 AM »

Quote from: voxonda on March 12, 2011, 05:40:53 AM

Hey G, Guess you've measured them and compared to the 750? I've got no experience with the GL's, but the piston rings for the 750 are still available..

Rob

My thoughts exactly Rob.

wannabridin · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2011, 07:38:13 AM »

I don't have a 750 to compare them to. Does anyone have measurements they could share with me? My 750 front end was sold!

If they're the same, I'll def. buy them for that!!

voxonda · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2011, 08:02:13 AM »

Outer diametre of piston = 24.9 m/m
Inner dia of groove = 21.25 m/m
Width of groove = 4.3 m/m

Height of ring = 3.42 m/m
Thickness of ring = 1.83 m/m

These rings are actually white and probably teflon.

Rob

wannabridin · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2011, 08:49:35 AM »

Thanks Rob! I guess I'll try to order some of the 750 ones, see if they work!

*edit* i just found some of my stock 750K front fork stuff, and i pulled off the damper rod piston ring and installed it on the GL. no go! the end gap is WAY too big! i guess my only option for updating these pieces (which do appear to be teflon, thanks Rob) is to look around some local supply houses and manufacturers. Hopefully someone will have something! but i don't even think i'll need one, as these are not a common source of problems.

additionally, the racetech adapters come with a teflon ring installed on theirs, which will help things out as well. although it is quite a b**ch to get installed properly!!

rangelov · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2011, 02:16:21 PM »

Well, since you work for piston ring mfr, why don't you get something from work? Something there has to be close enough to work. Iron rings will work. You can use gapped rings or interlocking rings. They are bathed in oil and should last a long time.

The ID of the fork tubes should out last the OD of the tubes. In other words, iron rings shouldn't wear out the fork tubes before the outer sealing surfaces do or pit excessively. If you are concerned about wear, you could add a friction modifier such as oil supplements from Lubegard.

Most automatic transmissions use scarfcut Teflon sealing rings in rotating assemblies. (Automatic transmissions also use iron rings or aluminum sealing rings). Buy some and modify the m to work or double stack them, whatever. Or make your own Teflon sealing rings. I guess I can look through my stash...

Their sealing rings only purpose is to divert the oil through the orifices rather than bypassing them. It isn't a really critical seal or a perfect seal. After all, look at the horrible dampening in the stock forks. The seal doesn't have to be perfect.

rangelov · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2011, 02:28:54 PM »

Quote from: MRieck on March 12, 2011, 05:26:50 AM

That material seems like Bakelite because it is old, hard and been immersed in oil. the new rings from Honda are white and softer. That split in there has a purpose and that is to increase the OD of the ring so it is larger than the top of the rod OD. Don't try and glue it together..it has to flex.

The split is there to minimize blow-by and make it easier to install than a solid sealing ring.. It doesn't differ much from straight end gap, other than it minimizes the space for blow-by to occur. Scarf cut Teflon seals have substituted for iron and aluminum sealing rings that have spring tension to hold them tight against the larger bore (OD). Teflon is soft enough that it will cold flow, shape itself to the bore, thus it will be a little larger than the bore would indicate.

Teflon generally doesn't wear bores, but doesn't seal as well as a conventional rigid sealing ring. Cast iron and aluminum sealing rings will seal well. They do not wear the bore unless the oil breaks down or the conditions and temperatures are severe.

wannabridin · « **Reply #26 on:** March 12, 2011, 04:56:54 PM »

Oh I know all this range, thanks for pointing it out! I worked for that company but got laid off 2 weeks before christmas, sooo no ties with them! I figure another rod with an intacseal will do just fine for me! If I feel a problem, I'll source the new rings...

Thanks for all yalls help so far!!

rangelov · « **Reply #27 on:** March 16, 2011, 12:55:36 PM »

G,

I feel for you. I have been unemployed for 26 months; Manufacturing Engineer at Ford...

Check this place out.
http://www.mfpseals.com/

They are national and have their HQ nearby. Their closest branch to you is in Houston, near my old stomping grounds. Find what you need and let me know, I'll get it for you. They have minimum quantity and pricing limitations, which I can avoid. I worked with them and still have a connection with the sales people. Plus I need to get seals for my floor jacks, vacuum pump/brake bleeder and tire machine from them, soon.

Dimitar

wookie · « **Reply #28 on:** March 16, 2011, 04:25:52 PM »

When i installed my racetech emulators the instructions said some forks have the rebound holes while others may not and to leave them stock if applicable. There was no mention of filling them, just checked the install instructions again.

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Author Topic: Filling dampening rod holes (Read 3015 times)