Topic: Death by drum break

[754]

 Yes, but what oil are you using on the brake cam pivot..

[MCRider]

Yes, but what oil are you using on the brake cam pivot..

The same oil I use on a muffler bearing.   

[greenjeans]

I came from a mountain bike racing background before I started riding on the street.  Took a while to get my foot of the back brake as much as I used it.

Locked the back wheel up more than I should (always loved the controlled skid) - the good thing about most of these bikes are their tracking - pretty easy to keep under control while skidding the back tire.   Definitely not the smartest thing to do with a 600lb bike.    I've since grown up alot - or a little depending on who you ask.

I have since taken 2 motorcycle safety courses and they have proved very informative.  I'd definitely recommend a course to new riders - probably should be mandatory.
Braking was one of the points that was covered the most.


On a side note - I have since swapped my levers on my mountain bikes over to match those of my cycles.   Mountain & road bikes typically have the rear brake levers on the right and the front lever on the left.   Second nature now.   

I've always wondered why bicycle levers and motorcycle levers are mounted on different sides...anyone ?

[Spikeybike]

Also, try this: Loosen the axle slightly, enough that its not pinching the brake plate. Have someone push down on the brake pedal hard and hold it. This will center the brake plate in the drum. Now tighten the axle. This should restore some progressiveness to the feel. If the plate is not centered you have much less of the shoe hitting the drum giving it an all or nothing feel.

wow i never even heard of that ....learn somthin everyday 

[Goofaroo]

I've always wondered why bicycle levers and motorcycle levers are mounted on different sides...anyone ?

I never understood that either. I also reverse mine to match my motorbikes to avoid confusion.

[Tugboat]

Yes, but what oil are you using on the brake cam pivot..

The same oil I use on a muffler bearing.   

HA! Hadn't heard the "muffler bearing" thing since highschool

[cookindaddy]

Yes the front is the first one you should apply but the rear will save your a** when you need it to.

I have not had mine apart yet but I can tell you that it works great and the action is progressive.

Be safe!

[ev0lve]

Death by drum break indeed...

I'm stealing the loosen the axle trick for the next machine. My rears, even freshly replaced, were always very iffy about exactly when it was going to lock the rear. It's not like it got progressively harder to push - it would just be either free or locked once you got past a certain point.

[Skunk Stripe]

Fine we will pick back up on this.

.FACT. There isn't a rider safety program that will encourage anyone to lock the back brake whilst trying to avoid a collision....Locking the rear brake is poor form and i have seen guys killed for doing that very thing {see previous post} Comment all you like about a locked wheel having some minute slowing effect but it will get you in more trouble than its worth, even worse in the wet,  been there, done that and learned from it a long time ago. Can you then explain "anti lock brakes".?

No they do not tell you to lock it up. Nor am I. I am saying that even a sliding rear tire will still stop you faster than no back brake at all. When you push your bike around, do you apply the rear brake? Didn't think so. As for antilock brakes, did you REALLY want to go there? How about this. It is to prevent wheel lock up on BOTH tires to maintain optimum stopping power in ANY braking situation. What hurts your little theory about panic stops is that most braking systems now actuate BOTH brakes. Proof alone that both brakes work better than just 1 in the vast majority or circumstances. You think you know more than the engineers and testers at all motorcycle manufacturers?

in everyday round town riding use what you like but still don't just rely on the rear

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US IS SAYING TO DO THIS! Have you been missing that? We have been saying to use BOTH, as a pair! As MSF courses teach. As makers are now setting their bike from the factory.

[mlinder]

God, I was going to stay out of this, but I promise, this is my last post.

A locked up rear tire does have some friction, true. But the loss of control is more than most can handle. Often, if the don't ride the lock-up all the way down to the ground, they can actually hook back up sideways and high-side.

I guess I'll leave it at this: Learn to use your back brakes properly. Yes, they do help you slow down. Yes, they can kill you if you use them in a panic-stop situation. Yes, engine braking, a tiny amount of rear brake and as much brake as you can grab safely up front is the optimal way to get the shortest stopping distance. Yes, bikes slide further on their side before they stop than using just the front brake to stop.
And again, spend a summer on a dirtbike.

[splitt]

If the brake wear is ok & the pivot is working correctly, you might check the backing plate position. Where the brake pivot arm attaches to the brake backing plate should be between the 4:30 & 6 o'clock position also. If it is not between these 2 positions the rear brake will not function correctly. A shortened or lengthened brake arm, a lengthened swingarm, shorter shocks or lowering blocks may change this & cause brake slippage or locking tendencies. It should remain between these positions at both extremes of the axle adjustment also.

[dave500]

just out of interest i recently had a new pair of DSS aftermarket rear shoes(cb500),for a start they didnt fit as the casting covered the split pin holes and the heel area wouldnt fit as it was too wide aswell,no sweat i filed them down enough to work,got them on and no matter how hard i stood on the pedal it would not lock the rear wheel,normal pressure was like i had ice blocks for brakes,so i emailed DSS and told them and ordered the genuine honda ones which work great,DSS offered a refund on the dodgy ones but i had explained how i had to modify them to fit and was told they couldnt resell them then!dont buy these crappy shoes!

[somesuch]

The friction material can losen also, get in there and check it before something worse happens.

I have seen this more than once, usually from sitting outside.

--Nick

[Skunk Stripe]

You are still hung up on sliding the rear,

No YOU are hung up thinking that I am saying you have to slide the rear. Yet you ask if I have read anything of yours. Maybe you should check out your own reading comprehension?
but you know what, you can doubt me ALL you want as you have no real argument to base anything on.
Do msf courses teach front brake only use or both? Do riding schools teach front only or both? They teach both. As unless you are constantly stopping on only the front tire, your rear is still in contact and can be used for braking and controlling the rear end. I guess I have to question your riding ability if you do not realize this.
Maybe you should read up on some of this more.
http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safety-skills/RS-braking4.htm
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-nht-212-motorcycle/motorcycle45-46.html
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/advanced_braking/index.html

Again, in case you can't seem to get it(no wonder you are outa here)I do not advocate sliding the rear, I advocate USING the rear properly. I am not sure how you keep missing this. I only bring up sliding the rear in that while it kills direction control, it will still slow you more than not braking with the rear at all. I thought this was pretty self-explanitory.

[Spikeybike]

oh man ..... this is getting worse than an oil thread 


         

[Gordon]

oh man ..... this is getting worse than an oil thread 


         

Oil threads are soooo last decade.  We had to come up with something new.

[Retro Rocket]

Well thanks for the links, this one says it better than i can and this is all i have been saying all along, although it leaves out engine braking which can be just as effective at controlling the rear in a panic stop.

      
  ISSUE STATEMENT

Although motorcycles have sufficient braking power and traction to enable them to stop in as short a distance as a typical car, panic-braking a motorcycle poses unique hazards and requires greater operator skill than stopping a car in panic situations or in a skid.
The vast majority of motorcycles use an independent system for the front and rear wheels, with a lever on the right handlebar controlling the front brake and foot pedal controlling the rear brake. A small number of motorcycles link the controls and an even smaller number have a handlebar lever to control the rear brake. We know of no current research that indicates which if any of these is more effective.

Braking seems to be one of the most difficult skills for a motorcyclist to master. It is also one of the most critical. It is difficult because most motorcycles have two separate brake-control systems, one for the front wheel and one for the rear wheel. As the front brake is applied, weight transfers to the front tire, which causes available traction to vary as weight shifts, requiring the rider to adjust pressure on each brake control in a maximum-performance stop. As found in the Hurt Report, in a situation the motorcyclist typically overbrakes the rear and underbrakes the front, even though weight transfer means the front brake must do the majority of the braking. Overbraking can either cause loss of steering control or total loss of control. If the rear wheel is locked, the rider typically loses directional control. If the front wheel locks, the rider is likely to crash due to loss of stability.

Rider training courses, available for the last two decades, have sought to develop improved motorcyclist braking skills. Greater emphasis has been focused on proper braking technique and the importance of the front brake. There seems to be a greater recognition of the importance of front brake use than there was 20 years ago when the Hurt Report was conducted. Failure to brake effectively and loss of control during panic-braking continue to play a role in motorcycle crashes.

Continued rider training and practice are key elements in assuring maximum rider performance in a panic situation. This allows riders to learn brake control during a maximum-braking stop, internalize the process of a hard stop so they react automatically in a panic situation, and deal with events such as rear-wheel lock-up. However, even panic-braking practice involves risk, because locking the front wheel can cause an immediate loss of control and a fall. This makes it difficult for rider training organizations to train riders to use the front brake to its full capability.

My ability to ride is better than my ability to get a point across by typing, that quote says it all....I was only trying to make a point about poor braking technique. The only time i have ever locked the front wheel was in the last couple of feet of stopping, which stopped me from going under a flat bed truck that reversed straight out in front of me.

Sorry for all the bull#$%* guys, i cleaned the thread up a bit....

[mlinder]

I lock up my front brake often... 

I do it for fun, though...

[dna_level_c7]

You guys are awesome! 

[CycleRanger]

oh man ..... this is getting worse than an oil thread 

Oil threads are soooo last decade.  We had to come up with something new.

Indeed.  I am impressed. 

[mlinder]

Just get rid of the rear wheel altogether. No chance of lockup then.

[TwoTired]

Anybody else notice maliveline hasn't posted back since reply #2?

He started all this mess.

Let's get him.   















jk

[Gordon]

Anybody else notice maliveline hasn't posted back since reply #2?

He started all this mess.

Let's get him.   

jk

He did exactly what you're supposed to do after you inadvertently stir up a hornets nest...



RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grnrngr]

Just get rid of the rear wheel altogether. No chance of lockup then.

Chuck Norris can do wheelies on a unicycle......