Author Topic: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment  (Read 3193 times)

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Offline Hush

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Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« on: March 16, 2011, 08:20:31 PM »
I've been tossing this around for quite a while, even got to the stage where I was going to sell the old girl and get something more user friendly on the open road.
Anyhow after long discussions with my mate at work who has a shed full of old Indian bikes I have decided to up the front sprocket from a 16 to a 17.
He said that when they bore the Indian out from 500cc to 600cc they go up a tooth and from 600cc to 700cc two teeth but those old engines lug like crazy diesels. :D
This may not be earth shattering news (actually we could do with a little less of the earth shattering about now) but it's something that has bugged me and put me off riding my bike many times.
I believe the Police had these bikes set-up for quick short sprint pursuits and not long lazy days on the highway.
I saw that one of our forum members (thanks MJSTONE for the tip) purchased a new sprocket from JT Sprockets via Ebay so had a look around their site and they produce a 17 tooth one for the 79 CB650.
With our horrible exchange rate the reasonably priced US$17 cog converts to NZ$24.59 and once you add P&P it's NZ$68.39 but if it helps me fall in love with Blondie again it will be worth it. ;)
Not sure how long I gotta wait for delivery but this could be worth waiting for.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 09:11:23 PM by Hush »
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline scunny

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 08:28:30 PM »
will wait on your report Rick. I find mine a bit "buzzy" on the open road.
that's with the 15/39 combo.
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Offline Hush

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 09:16:24 PM »
Yeah "buzzy" is how I'd describe it Larry, it feel like it needs a 6th gear which my toe searches endlessly for but never finds. Sometimes I pull right over and start off in first again because it feels like I can't get past 3rd ot 4th gear so I can count them as I shift!
I need what Jaffa's GSX400 has, a gear selector indicator panel, and she has 6 gears too lucky bag! :D

Hey Larry I just had an idea since you are running a 15 tooth on the front, if this 17T cures my problem I'm sending you my old 16 tooth as it will definitely make a difference to your bike, see I never forget a favour mate and I'm still in your debt for that gas tank tap you sent me last year. ;)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 09:21:10 PM by Hush »
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline singedebile

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 09:45:13 PM »
Yeah "buzzy" is how I'd describe it Larry, it feel like it needs a 6th gear which my toe searches endlessly for but never finds. Sometimes I pull right over and start off in first again because it feels like I can't get past 3rd ot 4th gear so I can count them as I shift!
I need what Jaffa's GSX400 has, a gear selector indicator panel, and she has 6 gears too lucky bag! :D

Hey Larry I just had an idea since you are running a 15 tooth on the front, if this 17T cures my problem I'm sending you my old 16 tooth as it will definitely make a difference to your bike, see I never forget a favour mate and I'm still in your debt for that gas tank tap you sent me last year. ;)

I think it has to do with my training from driving cars stick shift...  the engines just dont mind being shifted early for better gas mileage, and with my 550 I am always looking for another highway gear.. this is likely made worse by my 16inch wheel and i have yet to count the teeth to see if there was an attempt made to compensate ,
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 09:51:36 PM »
Yeah "buzzy" is how I'd describe it Larry, it feel like it needs a 6th gear which my toe searches endlessly for but never finds. Sometimes I pull right over and start off in first again because it feels like I can't get past 3rd ot 4th gear so I can count them as I shift!
I need what Jaffa's GSX400 has, a gear selector indicator panel, and she has 6 gears too lucky bag! :D

Hey Larry I just had an idea since you are running a 15 tooth on the front, if this 17T cures my problem I'm sending you my old 16 tooth as it will definitely make a difference to your bike, see I never forget a favour mate and I'm still in your debt for that gas tank tap you sent me last year. ;)

I think it has to do with my training from driving cars stick shift...  the engines just dont mind being shifted early for better gas mileage, and with my 550 I am always looking for another highway gear.. this is likely made worse by my 16inch wheel and i have yet to count the teeth to see if there was an attempt made to compensate ,

The tires made for 16" rims typically have taller sidewalls, so the overall difference in diameter compared to an 18" rim and tire combo is usually little if any. 

Offline Pinhead

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 09:52:37 PM »
I think you'll be happy you did it. I've been running a 17t front and don't plan on going back!
Doug

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Offline Hush

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2011, 02:04:17 AM »
That sounds encouraging Pinhead. :)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline cb650

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2011, 03:35:09 AM »
I always change the front at least.  On my current bike changed rear also.  Little over geared for the mts but out on the flat it's great.    Can always go down a gear when need be.
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Offline RickB

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2011, 03:40:55 AM »
So what's the thinking on this guys? I'm a novice so sorry for the noob question. More teeth better top end? Or better take off?

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2011, 03:53:13 AM »
So what's the thinking on this guys? I'm a novice so sorry for the noob question. More teeth better top end? Or better take off?

More teeth on the back or less teeth on the front equals lower gearing which means more revs for any given speed, less teeth on the back or more teeth on the front will raise gearing meaning less revs for the same speeds...

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2011, 04:04:19 AM »
these things really hum on the highway,im not keen on extended 110 kay (65 mph) running either,i live in a hilly twisty area so i leave it stock,these engines also like a little bit of load so at flight rpms they seems to be spinning to hard,but the same revs under load like a hill and it feels better.

Offline Hush

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2011, 01:07:50 PM »
If you look at a trail bike Rick you will see a tiny front sprocket and a huge rear one, this gives them quick acceleration over short distances which is just what trail bikes need in rough ground.
Our big road bikes need a higher gearing so a bigger front sprocket will mean my 650 isn't revving like Hell when I should be cruising (which is the case now).
They also produce a 18 tooth front for the later model 650's but I think the spline is different and anyway I only want to go up one tooth at a time to see the effect.
I once destroyed my rear sprocket on my Suzuki T350 while on a trip and the only replacement I could get without waiting for one from Japan was a TS400 trail, my rear was a 36 tooth and the T400 was a 42 tooth, it just fitted under the chainguard.
I could pull wheel-stands in 1st 2nd and 3rd  ;D it made for an interesting trip home with me trying to keep the front wheel on the ground at every set of lights. :D
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 06:42:09 PM by Hush »
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline RickB

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2011, 06:30:16 PM »
Thanks for the explanation guys. That's a funny story Hush, definitely don't wont to be doing that on your 650!

Offline mjstone

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2011, 07:12:03 PM »
I saw that one of our forum members (thanks MJSTONE for the tip) purchased a new sprocket from JT Sprockets via Ebay so had a look around their site and they produce a 17 tooth one for the 79 CB650.

Glad I could help Hush.  Hope it works out well for you.

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Offline Hush

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2011, 07:32:25 PM »
Love it love it, the engine seems to have relaxed with the extra tooth on the sprocket, it used to be 30mph=3000revs and 40mph=4000 revs but now there is a drop of exactly 1000 revs?
30mph now equals 2000 rpm and 40mph=3000 rpm, in fact I was hard pushed to get the bike to rev past 5000 rpm at all while riding.
No drop in power, smoother if anything.
Scunny are you sure you are running a 15T on the front?
Happy to send you my 16T as there is no way I would go back to it now, just curious to see if indeed you counted right. ;D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 07:53:49 PM »
Hush It would depend on what police force the Highway patrol allways wanted top end. They would pick up the chase when the city and county started falling off because they wanted 1-2-3 gear speed and would set there sprockets up for that.

Offline Hush

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2011, 11:56:09 PM »
Yeah mine was geared for quick short street pursuits (wouldn't stand a chance against modern cars) so I'm altering for highway riding now.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline mjstone

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2011, 09:48:51 AM »
Glad to hear that it's working out for ya Hush. :)

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Offline wardenerd

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2011, 10:15:08 AM »
my stock 1981 650C has in 5th gear a speed to revs as follows 50 MPH 3700 RPM.  60MPH 4600 his may be off by 100 or so RPM's from looking at the two guages.

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2011, 12:45:21 PM »
Yes that looks about right Wardenerd.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline wardenerd

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2011, 05:02:32 AM »
If I was going to change it I would go for lower rpm at cruise speeds.  The bikes got plenty of get up and go. How much difference woul one tooth make?  2 teeth?

Offline Hush

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2011, 01:09:19 PM »
You would be suprised, I just couldn't take my bike home and park it up I was having way too much fun yesterday. ;D
The engine is much more relaxed at cruising speed yet the pick-up from lights and stop signs wasn't badly affected at all?
I'd love to try the 18 tooth CB650CS front sprocket but the inner profile of their sprockets is completely different to the early 650's.
Anyhow I'm sold on the 17T and that 16T can go to a better home, Scunny I'll need your address again. :D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline cb650

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2011, 02:09:51 PM »
I've ran a 18 on my 80.    All you have to watch is that the "gaurd" doesnt rub.
18 grand and 18 miles dont make you a biker

Offline mjstone

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2011, 04:44:48 PM »
What about dropping a tooth or two in the back, Hush?  Wouldn't that have the same affect?   Then you wouldn't have the clearance problem.

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Offline cb650

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2011, 06:12:37 PM »
The rear doesnt effect it as much. And the smallest rear you you can get is 37 teeth.   
1 front will equal 3 rear.
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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2011, 06:34:52 PM »
The rear doesnt effect it as much. And the smallest rear you you can get is 37 teeth.  
1 front will equal 3 rear.

If you can work out how many teeth you need to have on the rear it will work, there are plenty of places that make sprockets to suit.
There is a gearing calculator on this site somewhere....
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 11:21:39 PM by Retro Rocket »
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Offline scunny

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2011, 09:08:17 PM »
there may be some confusion(mine) on front sprocket size, I will have to recount but probably 16, damn, ageing is a bugger.
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Offline Hush

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2011, 02:31:10 AM »
OK well if you already have a 16T I'll hang onto it Larry, I would highly reccommend replacing with the 17T though as the effect is just amazing, I'm back in love with my bike again. :D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline mjstone

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2011, 07:36:19 AM »
Stock front for my 500 is 17 tooth and rear is 34 tooth.  Makes it real easy - 2:1.   With a 17 front and a 37 rear you would have 2.17:1 ratio.

MJ
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Offline cb650

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2011, 08:59:23 AM »
The rear doesnt effect it as much. And the smallest rear you you can get is 37 teeth.   
1 front will equal 3 rear.

If you can work out how many teeth you need to have on the rear it will work, there are plenty of places that make sprockets to suit.
There is a gearing calculator on this site somewhere....

Yes you can have anything special made if you want to pay for it. I was talking without a special order.   The one I ordered was listed in DK's catalog.  Its for a 70's yamaha 750 twin but has the same bolt pattern.
18 grand and 18 miles dont make you a biker

Offline manjisann

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2011, 10:29:21 AM »
Interesting post Hush  :)  I may have to try this as I'm hoping to do a lot of cruising this summer and next (assuming the bike agrees  ;) ) Wonder if this would help my MPG, especially with my non stock carb setup.

Brandon
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Offline nancy

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2011, 12:47:02 PM »
The sprocket change by just 1 tooth makes a serious difference. My CB750 is fine - highway and city. I can sit in 4th gear crusing inner city and drop to 2nd to turn slow at intersection and it has enough revs on to pull away with power.
But my new Triumph Sprint is geared differnet with a 19t front sprocket, That makes the bike go like a ballistic loco on the highway, but in the city with a pillion on, it is awful. Have to ride the clutch and pour on the throttle to get off from a stop and if I want to do a slow 20kph turn or go round a bout, even in 1st, it is pulling too much and about to stall unless I ride the clutch into the turn! It needs an 18t front sprocket...it's on order.
Regards
Mark

Offline Hush

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2011, 01:12:51 PM »
Brandon where ya been boy?
Cheers Mark, you intersted in doing a leg on the SOHC4 Relay later in the year?
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline nancy

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2011, 01:34:44 PM »
Hush
Yes and no. Depends on whether  I still have a SOHC at that time. I'm doing phase last of my restore and having guards rechromed. After that the missus is suggesting I upend it onto someone else and concentrate on owning just one bottomles money pit - but I'll be very sad and forlorn and she may decide not to forsake me and let me keep them both. So...yes in principle.
BUT I know ZIP of this event in our country. Saw the details of the USA event and did wonder what was to happen to make it a WORLD event. I assumed it was USA and Europe maybe. SO will be nice to be involved.
Regards
Mark

Offline manjisann

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2011, 03:38:27 PM »
I've been about. Mostly just been busy with work and school and work, and the occasional bit of woodworking :)  Now that it's back to riding season I was thinking about my SOHC4 fam and figured I'd drop by and say hi!  I'm hoping to do some serious touring on the bike and if this $18 part can help her run a bit happier and maybe eek out another mpg or two, even better :)

Brandon
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Offline dave500

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2011, 01:15:36 AM »
Stock front for my 500 is 17 tooth and rear is 34 tooth.  Makes it real easy - 2:1.   With a 17 front and a 37 rear you would have 2.17:1 ratio.

MJ
i tried a 37 rear with the 17 front on a 500 and its like youve lost 5th gear,you get a lower first and lose top gear,accelleration seemed the same but you run out of gears sooner.

Offline mjstone

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2011, 08:48:30 AM »
I agree, dave500.  I was trying to point out that the ratio is still closer to 2:1 as cb650 was saying 3:1.  When I looked for replacement sprockets for my 500 I found lots of 37 tooth, but held out for a 34 tooth.  I'm very satisfied by the stock setup on my 500 and didn't want to change a thing.

MJ
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Offline dave500

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Re: Hush's 650 front sprocket experiment
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2011, 11:37:19 PM »
we used to gear our two stroke dirt bikes way down,lucky to hit 90 kays(55 mph)flat out,we used to ride in real tight trails though,creek crossings and steep inclines,the stock gearing just didnt suit in that application,a super low crawl gear is handy on a two stroke!i dont think you can go up on the front sprocket on 500s because of the clutch rod,or less on the rear as its about the same size as the hub anyway,the 550 and 650 give you a bit more flexibility that way?