Author Topic: FFJMOORE CB550 BIG bore engine build. (Read 82467 times)

Flying J · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2011, 09:59:02 PM »

bought an engine stand a slapped together some mounts. Now i just need to get some help to put it up on the stand i guess. I have work for 2 days and then ill try and get back at it.

fastbroshi · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2011, 10:49:09 PM »

I got that same stand. Is the bracketry you have going to allow you to split the cases?

Flying J · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2011, 09:52:03 AM »

No it wont but i can modify it. When you split the case is it easier to take to top off and leave the gears in the bottom or flip it over and take the bottom off?

fastbroshi · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2011, 01:55:36 PM »

I think the proper way is to remove the top bolts, then flip over and remove the bottom bolts. All the 12mm bolts that are really torqued down are on the bottom, so it makes sense to undo them last in sequence. I just did it this way, no probs. Don't forget the 10mm bolt under the oil pan.

Also, I think I've got that same stand, Harbor Freight, right? I got two and cut the second to sit on the end of the first so it would hold the bottom of the other side of the motor.

RAFster122s · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2011, 05:19:10 PM »

There is a Japanese source for the primary chain that another build for a High HP 550 motor used if I recall correctly. (Not Honda) I'll poke around and see if I can find it.

While the O-rings are blamed for the leaks many times the pucks (about $1) that are in the head help seal and prevent a leak that is typical of 550s. Just have to be careful putting the head on with all the valve train of course.

luceja · « **Reply #30 on:** March 23, 2011, 04:58:02 PM »

Quote from: ffjmoore on March 21, 2011, 09:52:03 AM

No it wont but i can modify it. When you split the case is it easier to take to top off and leave the gears in the bottom or flip it over and take the bottom off?

I'd leave everything in the bottom, because the crank is attached to the primary shaft, which is mounted into the bottom... someone correct me if that's bad advice.

RAFster122s · « **Reply #31 on:** March 23, 2011, 07:21:01 PM »

About the source of leaks on the 550 motor I mentioned a few posts ago... The pucks are cam tower pucks but not used for that on the 550 motor...
Read more here:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=63761.0

Paulages on the sohc4 forums is very knowledgeable about the 550 motor and I think he may have authored a thread about doing the 650/550 hybrid build.
He has one 596cc 550 and built a firebreathing high displacement motor not too long ago. Might be worth digging up some of his threads and asking him some questions.

David

Flying J · « **Reply #32 on:** March 23, 2011, 08:12:44 PM »

Yeah, Im very familiar with paul's work. I think i have read all his build thread. Im just going to replace all the gaskets and if that doesnt work then who knows what will.

Flying J · « **Reply #33 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:05:13 PM »

Well, I took the top end apart tonight. Took some photos. Nothing complicated with taking it apart.
If you want to see these pictures full size go here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/thepanman99/CB550%20rebuild/

Here are the rocker arms, What are your thoughts, good enough? They are going to be riding on a 650 cam.

Next we have the cam which gives you a clue on this head.

Is this head salvageable?

Camchain tensioner wear looks ok to me but the little plastic guy around the spring broke when i pulled it out. Does it matter or just run it?

Cylinders looked fine and re-usable for an over bore.

A bit of oil came out when i pulled the jugs, Motor has been sitting a while and i was surprised it had not drained back down. See that little silver dowel sticking up? I thought to myself "id better pull all those small parts off so they dont get lost". well the one on the other side is gone! have to keep an eye out on the floor for it now.

Pistons all looked the same. The head gasket was pretty oily so that was one of this motors problems.

Flying J · « **Reply #34 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:09:34 PM »

So the questions for the night are:
Is the head salvageable?
Is the cam salvageable?
Will the tensioner be ok?
Where did the oil dowel go?

Tintop · « **Reply #35 on:** March 24, 2011, 10:06:52 AM »

The surfaces on the cam can be repaired, I've had a number of cams repaired. Shops that do crankshaft repair usually also do camshaft repair. Regarding the rockers. The advice I got was to replace the rockers when installing a new cam. The old ones will cause accelerated wear.

I'll defer on the head, and tensioner to those more knowledgeble about these engines.

Greggo · « **Reply #36 on:** March 24, 2011, 11:06:32 AM »

Quote from: Tintop on March 24, 2011, 10:06:52 AM

The surfaces on the cam can be repaired, I've had a number of cams repaired. Shops that do crankshaft repair usually also do camshaft repair. Regarding the rockers. The advice I got was to replace the rockers when installing a new cam. The old ones will cause accelerated wear.

I'll defer on the head, and tensioner to those more knowledgeble about these engines.

First off, VERY interested in seeing this thread come to completion, as I'm tearing my spare 550 motor apart. Secondly, I've wondered the same thing about the rockers, but replacing them ALL?!? That will get seriously expensive, VERY fast. My pop is a mechanic, and his feeling is that as long as the rockers and cam are both used, and the surfaces aren't scored then all will be well.

Tintop · « **Reply #37 on:** March 24, 2011, 12:35:14 PM »

Quote from: Greggo on March 24, 2011, 11:06:32 AM

Quote from: Tintop on March 24, 2011, 10:06:52 AM
The surfaces on the cam can be repaired, I've had a number of cams repaired. Shops that do crankshaft repair usually also do camshaft repair. Regarding the rockers. The advice I got was to replace the rockers when installing a new cam. The old ones will cause accelerated wear.

I'll defer on the head, and tensioner to those more knowledgeble about these engines.

First off, VERY interested in seeing this thread come to completion, as I'm tearing my spare 550 motor apart. Secondly, I've wondered the same thing about the rockers, but replacing them ALL?!? That will get seriously expensive, VERY fast. My pop is a mechanic, and his feeling is that as long as the rockers and cam are both used, and the surfaces aren't scored then all will be well.

I would show him the photo's of the rockers, a couple have uneven wear. I would want to know why, and when you fix the problem they are going to 'reseat', onto an already worn cam. The alternative is to have them hard welded, but that's not cheap either.

RustyOlive · « **Reply #38 on:** March 24, 2011, 02:12:51 PM »

WOW!! this thread has me glued now.. just as I have been thinking about tearing into my 550 with the same looking oily head gasket..

OneWheelDrive · « **Reply #39 on:** March 24, 2011, 02:23:35 PM »

Quote from: ffjmoore on March 23, 2011, 10:09:34 PM

Where did the oil dowel go?

Did you check the head?

Flying J · « **Reply #40 on:** March 24, 2011, 02:59:52 PM »

Yeah I looked. I think I might have been in there and fell out as I was carrying it to the work bench.

Greggo · « **Reply #41 on:** March 24, 2011, 03:00:25 PM »

Quote from: Tintop on March 24, 2011, 12:35:14 PM

Quote from: Greggo on March 24, 2011, 11:06:32 AM
Quote from: Tintop on March 24, 2011, 10:06:52 AM
The surfaces on the cam can be repaired, I've had a number of cams repaired. Shops that do crankshaft repair usually also do camshaft repair. Regarding the rockers. The advice I got was to replace the rockers when installing a new cam. The old ones will cause accelerated wear.

I'll defer on the head, and tensioner to those more knowledgeble about these engines.

First off, VERY interested in seeing this thread come to completion, as I'm tearing my spare 550 motor apart. Secondly, I've wondered the same thing about the rockers, but replacing them ALL?!? That will get seriously expensive, VERY fast. My pop is a mechanic, and his feeling is that as long as the rockers and cam are both used, and the surfaces aren't scored then all will be well.

I would show him the photo's of the rockers, a couple have uneven wear. I would want to know why, and when you fix the problem they are going to 'reseat', onto an already worn cam. The alternative is to have them hard welded, but that's not cheap either.

I should have clarified that I didn't show him those pictures (he's 55 miles away). I was just relating the advice he's given me for my project, in which I'm taking the nicest rockers from two covers to make one good one, and I have a very new looking 550 cam. Haven't guys put used 650 cams in used 550 motors before? I assume it's just a case by case deal.

FFJ, are you using the later model rocker cover with the locked shafts?

Greggo · « **Reply #42 on:** March 24, 2011, 03:01:36 PM »

Quote from: ffjmoore on March 24, 2011, 02:59:52 PM

Yeah I looked. I think I might have been in there and fell out as I was carrying it to the work bench.

If you can't find yours I might have a spare.

Flying J · « **Reply #43 on:** March 24, 2011, 04:54:05 PM »

Quote from: Greggo on March 24, 2011, 03:00:25 PM

FFJ, are you using the later model rocker cover with the locked shafts?

Not sure what the differance is. This motor is out of a 76. I have another motor that i will likely pull apart and see how it looks before i put it back together but its in LA with my bike.

Not sure what year that motor is either.

Greggo · « **Reply #44 on:** March 24, 2011, 05:29:59 PM »

Quote from: ffjmoore on March 24, 2011, 04:54:05 PM

Quote from: Greggo on March 24, 2011, 03:00:25 PM

FFJ, are you using the later model rocker cover with the locked shafts?

Not sure what the differance is. This motor is out of a 76. I have another motor that i will likely pull apart and see how it looks before i put it back together but its in LA with my bike. Not sure what year that motor is either.

I'll defer to an expert.

Quote from: TwoTired on July 01, 2008, 07:01:05 PM

For a late model assembled cam cover, you need to look for four studs and nuts as well as those four holes under the breather cover. Like this:

To quote TwoTired again,

Quote from: TwoTired on April 11, 2007, 11:00:19 AM

As bryanj states not all 550s had this problem. In the US, the factory improved covers occurred mid to late 76 production. So, it is likely your bike bears scrutiny.

The bad ones I found from on bike inspection were most effected on the #1 cylinder side, (the left). The first one I found WAS making noise, as the rocker was hitting the inspection hole cover. This was also the worst one I found.
To inspect, the cam cover end cap must be removed. This cover contain two plugs with orings, that fit into the rocker shaft access holes. With the end cover removed, you can see the ends of the rocker shafts. The shafts have a threaded hole in them, used for shaft extraction. If the cover is worn, this hole will appear uncentered in the shaft bore. The valve spring pressure, plus cover wear, makes the shaft move up higher in the cover. Wear such as in the picture below, allows the rocker to twist, placing high wear loads on the cam and cam follower, causing early failure of those components as well. It takes a lot of miles before actual engine performance suffers, though.

You can tell what year the motor is by the engine number I believe. CB550E-1xxxxxx is '74, CB550E-2xxxxxx is '75, and so on.

bwaller · « **Reply #45 on:** March 24, 2011, 06:11:21 PM »

The oil restrictors/dowels are between the cylinder & top case, the picture showed the cylinders still on so probably you pulled them off?

A couple of your rockers are finished. Any time the stellite is worn through they are junk. If you're using another used cam just pick the best rockers you can find. Ideally you mark the rockers to re-install in the same place so they mate with the same lobe. Changing used cams you get what you get.

If I install a new cam I use new rockers or hardwelds.

fastbroshi · « **Reply #46 on:** March 24, 2011, 06:24:18 PM »

Is it just me or are the journals in the head for the cam worn pretty bad? Mine didn't look that worn last time I had mine off. Can you catch a fingernail in any of those FFJ? Any grooves at all?

Flying J · « **Reply #47 on:** March 24, 2011, 07:04:23 PM »

Im pretty sure the head is no good either. The journals look toasted. Luckily i have a different head im using. What i need are rocker arms that are ok. I guess ill just send the jugs off to be bored out and start working on the bottom half.

Flying J · « **Reply #48 on:** March 25, 2011, 02:25:40 PM »

Do i dare buy rockers from thailand?

Tintop · « **Reply #49 on:** March 25, 2011, 02:42:33 PM »

Quote from: ffjmoore on March 25, 2011, 02:25:40 PM

Do i dare buy rockers from thailand?

1st time over 6K should answer that.

It will be better than China, but as good as OEM? PM MikeR and see what he suggests.

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Author Topic: FFJMOORE CB550 BIG bore engine build. (Read 82467 times)