Author Topic: kind of a scientific question (Read 2119 times)

Roach · « **on:** February 18, 2011, 05:00:11 PM »

so there is a new report from Toronto about a kid pointing a laser pointer at a helicopter.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/02/18/17333831.html

my question is?

If you were to point a laser pointer at a helicopter would it actually light up the whole cockpit?

my thoughts about this from my knowledge with hunting rifles and for #$%*s and giggles throwing on a laser pointer for some shooting. is that a laser pointer has the same circumference dot at 5 feet away that it does at 100 yards. does it or does it not? I am finding it hard to believe that the laser lit up the cockpit....

Joel · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2011, 05:12:32 PM »

It does spread somewhat but at shorter distances it isn't noticeable. The spread is probably more noticeable with cheaper lasers.

kaceyf2 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2011, 05:22:29 PM »

was the helicopter near the moon? maybe the cockpit has some weird and wonderfully odd magnifying glass in it that refracts light oddly and enables them to do peeping tom behaviour on us a lot better. poor kid I bet he soiled himself when the swat team arrived!! maybe (as is often the case) the cops "embelished" their story. Maybe the helicopter was being buzzed by aliens at exactly the same time and thats who really lit the cockpit up. In fact maybe the only thing that lit the cockpit up was the alien encounter and the cops got anal probed, and they were so ashamed at their inability to anything about it, that they found some poor kid , planted a laser pointer in his porn stash and then blamed the whole thing on him, quoting his porn stash as "evidence" of his burgeoning criminality....maybe.

TwoTired · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2011, 06:26:38 PM »

Half of seeing is in the brain's interpretation.
Strong coherent light on the retina overloads the visual cortex flooding the brain with massive impulses which are interpreted as a flood of light. It doesn't really matter if the whole cockpit is actually flooded with light or not.

It also gives the subject temporary blindness, like looking into a flash bulb or a temporary glance directly at the sun. Further, it takes a while to recover your vision, especially at night when the iris is wide open and gathering as much light as it can. And recovering full night vision can take 10-15 minutes (or more).
Flying is an intensely visual endeavor. Without it, you are just a ballistic projectile. Imagine driving on the freeway at 70 MPH and closing your eyes for 15 seconds without knowing if the freeway continues straight or begins a curve. Now add a vertical dimension of complexity to that.

Cheers,

Skunk Stripe · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2011, 03:47:22 PM »

Sounds like crap to me. I have never seen a laser pointer shoot a beam that far. So unless this was some sort of super pointer or the chopper was less then 50 ft off the ground...

Roach · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2011, 04:12:33 PM »

really a true laser pointer can shoot a steady stream for way more than 50 feet now if its a knock off laser pointer and is actually just a red beam of light then 50 feet is about all you will get out of it

TwoTired · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2011, 04:38:55 PM »

Quote from: Skunk Stripe on February 19, 2011, 03:47:22 PM

Sounds like crap to me. I have never seen a laser pointer shoot a beam that far. So unless this was some sort of super pointer or the chopper was less then 50 ft off the ground...

Pearls of "wisdom" from the uneducated, ignorant.

For those that want to actually be informed, read:
“Blinded by the Light: A Look at Cockpit Laser Illumination Events” here....
http://www.faa.gov/news/aviation_news/2009/media/julaug2009.pdf

KeithTurk · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2011, 07:58:31 PM »

This is actually a newer version of a very old problem called "Spot Lighting".... the more powerful lasers can in fact cause blindness like conditions for the pilot...

Without getting over complicated... The eye's Night adaption is ruined instantly by the light and he's forced to reorient with day vision in a night time environment.... ( in other words he can't see poop ) it's simply BLACK out until he can re-adapt to the night environment....

This assuming he's not flying Goggles.... which amplify the ambient light available.... When the Laser is seen by the Goggles they automatically go Dark.... ( read the pilot is blind again )

Bottom line... it's a Federal offense to interfere with an aircraft in flight and if you get caught doing it intentionally.... they will genuinely take serious offense....

K

scottly · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2011, 08:56:14 PM »

In the early 80s, in the Victor Valley area of southern CA, the San Bernadino Sheriff's Dept used helicopters a lot. There was a case where the pilot was "momentarily blinded" by a laser. The cops arrested 2 guys in their 20's, (after being roughed up a bit by the sheriffs), only to be exonerated a bit later after it came to light that the real culprits were a couple of 13 year olds. One of their dads had gotten the laser from a super-market scanner; IIRC, he was a tech on the new-fangeld things...
The story stuck in my mind, because I had been intentionally blinded twice before by SBSD spotlights while driving. The worst time happened on a dark road: an approaching car had their high beams on. As they got closer, and the lights were getting uncomfortably bright for me, I quickly flashed my brights. He dimmed his lights. Cool. As he passed by, I glanced over, only to be hit straight in the eyes by a mega-candle power spotlight from a distance of about 6 feet. No doubt about it: it was intentional.

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:06:40 AM »

It could temporarily blind them and that could be a problem.

Skunk Stripe · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2011, 07:56:18 AM »

Way to be an #$%* tt. Instead of asking what type laser I was talking about, you spew #$%*.
fyi, I was taking about the normal crappy ass pointers most people get, the cheapo $5 things, thank you very much. Could you have asked if I was referring to the little button cell pointers? Of course you could have but it is much easier to assume what you want.

Roach · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:21:10 AM »

Quote from: Skunk Stripe on February 20, 2011, 07:56:18 AM

Way to be an #$%* tt. Instead of asking what type laser I was talking about, you spew #$%*.
fyi, I was taking about the normal crappy ass pointers most people get, the cheapo $5 things, thank you very much. Could you have asked if I was referring to the little button cell pointers? Of course you could have but it is much easier to assume what you want.

dude calm down you got that answer because you gave a #$%*ty remark that coverd nothing. anyone reading it would have said the same thing. from what i gatherd from it. it sounded like you were saying that there were no lasers out there that could shoot over 50ft

Gordon · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2011, 08:00:00 AM »

Roach · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2011, 10:32:25 AM »

Quote from: Gordon on February 21, 2011, 08:00:00 AM

bahahah i had to copy that for next time

Duanob · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2011, 10:03:34 AM »

My $5 cat toy laser can light up telephone poles at least four blocks away. When pointed at aviation pilot's eyes it probably seems like it lights up everything and leaves them temporarily blinded. There are a rash of laser pointings at Seatac Airport aircraft lately and the FAA and local police are not happy. As an airline passenger I would not be happy either. No justification for this at all.

Don R · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2011, 03:55:06 PM »

The first pointer I ever saw was at night, the guy pointed it at a passing airplane and the reflective numbers on the underside of the wing lit up. He put it away and we left the area.

medic09 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2011, 04:13:40 PM »

Gordon, you're going to get me in trouble! I gave my wife a copy of a sarcastic 'hurt feelings report', and damned if she didn't use it at work! Do you know what will happen when I give her a copy of the 'butthurt report'?

As for the laser issue: those of us who fly for a living are all too cognizant of the unnecessary accidents and deaths that occur, especially in my (air EMS) industry. Any twerp who gets caught lighting up a cockpit should be arraigned for assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder, along with the Federal violations. If I caught them, I do think I might beat them to a pulp before coming to my senses. Flying can be risky enough, without jerks endangering people for no good reason.

Grnrngr · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2011, 05:14:40 PM »

FWIW, since no one else mentioned it..green lasers are significantly more powerful than red..

TwoTired · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2011, 12:27:24 PM »

Police arrest pair for pointing lasers at plane bound for Chicago airport
Two people were arrested last week for allegedly pointing a laser beam at a commercial jetliner near Chicago's Midway Airport. Authorities arrested 22-year-old Shania Smith and 24-year-old Elvin Slater, and each is charged with two counts of discharging a laser pointer at a police officer and four counts of discharging a laser at aircraft. Chicago Tribune/The Associated Press (3/18)

shacolaid · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2011, 01:39:50 PM »

Been away for some time, this post has my interest as I too fly in medical helicopters like Medic09. Every once in awhile we have had laser pointers directed toward us. The problem is with the night vision goggles that the pilots wear. The lasers can temporarily blind them when wearing the goggles. The pilots are looking at instruments underneath the goggles and outside the cockpit for obstacles using the goggles.
A general area is given to the local authorities and the FAA for investigation.

News:

Author Topic: kind of a scientific question (Read 2119 times)