Author Topic: K0 Alternator Cover Gasket Problem (Read 4248 times)

Bob Wessner · « **on:** April 07, 2006, 12:26:19 PM »

I finally got around to tackling the minor oil leaks on the left side. The plan was to replace both the alt. cover gasket and the trans. cover gasket. Got everything off, cleaned up and ready to install the gaskets. Per the reprint parts list I have, the alt. gasket part# is 11397-300-030 with a superseded reference to 11397-300-303. When I ordered the gaskets from the Honda dealer, they had yet a later supersede # 11397-300-306.

When I went to check the gasket fits, the trans. gasket is fine. The alternator gasket does not fit. Off quite a bit in the upper-right quadrant. So, I took it back and questioned the part number and explained. He indicated this was a Honda supersede and even called them to verify that if there were others available. There are no others, this is it and it is supposed to fit a K0 (as they have it in their fiche). Well, it doesn't. Anyone else with a K0 ever replace the alt. gasket? If I can't figure this out, guess I will have to try my hand at cutting one. Maybe I should have lived with the oil leak.

kaceyf2 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2006, 12:54:50 PM »

Hya Bob! yep, the joys of "superceded parts" eh?
are you using D.silver as a supplier? if not he might be worth a ring to point you in the right direction so to speak...but, if he cannot help, I have a couple of mates that run these old girls(K0's) and I am sure that they will both know of the problem AND have a solution, that does not require you to wibbly- wobbly cut a very thin gasket out of gasket paper with your misses's scissors! ( I am pretty certain You ARE totally capable of doing it, just dont want to eh?)
you know, we must be, (as a group), (motorcyclists AND cb750 owners/runners) THE ONLY bunch of mechanics/restorers, THAT PUT UP with badly fitting gasket sets that are often incomplete,often garbage, NEVER contain ALL the right gaskets AND NEVER contain oil seals...Its a really "poor do"
And considering how much we pay for our "gasket sets" compared to say one for the average familly car, we are getting "stitched up" every time and stuffed right royally into the bargain.

Jonesy · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2006, 01:08:38 PM »

Cutting gaskets isn't too bad, I do it all the time for my outboards I restore.

If you need gasket material, go to your local NAPA or AutoZone. NAPA has a gasket material variety pack with different thicknesses, materials, etc and I think the swatches in the pack are just big enough to do the alternator. AutoZone sells rolls of different gasket papers.

You can coat the backside of the alternator with spotting blue (what machinists and toolmakers uses to determine surface contact between 2 parts) and transfer it to the paper. Use a new Xacto blade with a piece of wood behind it to cut it out. You can use the Xacto knife for the bolt holes too, but gasket punches give the best results.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2006, 01:14:58 PM »

Kaceyf2,

Quote

I have a couple of mates that run these old girls(K0's) and I am sure that they will both know of the problem AND have a solution,

If you would, ask them if they have encountered this problem, I'd appreciate it. I've only been dealing with Honda, will try DS.

Dan,

If I have to cut one, it didn't appear too bad. The alt. assembly will lie flat. I was already giving some thought to what to use to transfer the pattern from the alt. housing to the gasket material. Where does one find spotting blue? I was thinking of using a thin coat of poster paint or something since it would wash off easily with water.

Jonesy · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2006, 01:52:04 PM »

Bob,

Spotting Blue is available at shops like Production Tool Supply. (I think there's one in the AA area)

However, I thought of a much easier approach- when your wife's not looking, borrow her lipstick. A film of lipstick on the alternator will transfer to the gasket paper. (I saw this trick on a home improvement TV show for marking electrical boxes on drywall sheets so you know where to cut the holes for them..)

I suppose a thin film of heavy grease would work as too, as it would significantly darken the paper.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2006, 02:17:51 PM »

Thanks for the idea of the lipstick. I might even let my wife choose the color/shade.

bryanj · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2006, 05:11:00 AM »

OK heres the old Marine Engineers way:-
Lay the gasket paper over the alternator and with the ball end of a SMALL hammer tap where the bolt holes are, the holes will cut the paper. When you have one hole put a bolt/screw in it to hold the paper before doing another one etc, etc.

Remove the paper and grease the casing gasket sutface

Replace the paper with the bolts and run your finger firmly round and round over the gasket surface on top of the paper.

This leaves a nice "picture" that you can cut out.

Doing the holes first means you dont rip the paper when trying to punch them!!

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2006, 05:14:14 AM »

I can envision how that would work. Thanks for the tip.

bryanj · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2006, 06:31:02 AM »

Thats OK Bob, If you are VERY careful you can actually "tap" out the outer shape with the flat end of same hammer and just have to use the scissors on the inner. Don't try tapping that out as well you will be hitting the windings if the coil is still in there!!

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2006, 10:44:46 AM »

Well, had this bright idea for making a gasket template-- my scanner. As long as the part will fit the platen and you scan at 100% and don't select "scale to fit media" when you print and, oh yea, it has to fit 8 1/2" width if that's your scanner's limit. Worked great. Did a dry run on paper, used some of my wife's 3M 77 spray adhesive that she uses for some craft thing, it's not a permanent bond at least if used sparingly. After cutting it out, I matched it to the cover and the alt. on the bike, looked like it would do the job in gasket material easily.

I matched it to the gasket I had gotten from the dealer, still no match. Then for some reason, I flipped it over top-to-bottom, damned if it didn't all match up. Feeling a bit stupid.

. In looking at the alt. housing on the bike it has a very distinctive shape for sure, spherical to the left and lower-left and sort of a rounded triangular upper-right. I have no idea why I did not try flipping it top-to-bottom yesterday. Well, actually I do. At first glance that orientation wouldn't have seemed correct, but it is. Anyway, problem appears to be solved, but at least found how to use the scanner in the future should it be necessary.

Jonesy · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2006, 10:52:58 AM »

Look on the bright side, Bob- now you'll have it all back together for tomorrow. The weather report for our area looks very favorable for a ride!

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2006, 07:01:10 PM »

Actually, it looks good for most of next week.

techy5025 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2006, 11:39:49 PM »

Bob.

I haven't forgotten that I have to measure the difference between brass and
plastic float sink. I've been busy with other stuff on the new (old?) bike, but
it is in the que to do. Come to think of it, the bike came with four plastic floats
in a bag.....and I haven't pulled the carbs apart that were on the bike. There
may be no brass ones to test.

Could be bad not to have brass ones.

Jim

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2006, 01:07:34 PM »

Well, in my anal quest for a dry bike (and garage floor) I may almost be there. After figuring out my top from my bottom

gasket-wise, the old girl is as dry as she has ever been while I've owned her. Took if for a 60 mile ride today and no drips. When I got back I snugged all the hex fasteners slightly with the key figuring the gaskets may have compressed some since yesterday and they had. I did find one tiny drop of oil hanging from one of the lower case bolts and I'm guessing the washer may not be sealing.

In looking at the parts book, this is a fairly long bolt and I am assuming these can only be removed/replaced as part of an engine out tear-down??

I had found a few flecks of oil on my right boot a couple of weeks ago and thought, heaven forbid, the points shaft seal might be leaking. Turned out the bolt holding the oil pressure gauge needed snugging. Another inch of progress.

Tomorrow looks like an even better day for riding, supposed to be in the 70's.

Jonesy · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2006, 06:18:25 PM »

Where was this bolt located? Did you seal up your chain oiler? I'm asking because in my experience before I could shut the oiler off I would have drips from all kinds of places un the bottom of the engine cases. Now, with the oiler off, I don't have those drips anymore.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2006, 06:24:46 PM »

No, didn't shut the oiler off yet. Haven't found an "O" ring to section that would be snug enough. Hard to believe the oil drop could be coming from the chain/sprocket, I would think the rotation would carry towards the back, not the front.

There are 8 similarly dimensioned bolts, 8x120 backed by washers (presumably case bolts). It's one of them on the left side- bottom just below the alt. cover.

Jonesy · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2006, 07:43:34 PM »

Ahh.. OK. Those are the crankshaft main bearing support bolts.

On my bike the oiler flung oil all over the place and what collected inside the sprocket cover dripped down towards the bottom of the motor and along the frame rail, dripping from numerous points. Drove me nuts trying to figure out where it was coming from!

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #17 on:** April 10, 2006, 07:46:26 PM »

Probably can't remove that one "in place" and replace it or a new washer, eh?

techy5025 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2006, 01:23:37 AM »

Bob,

Tonight, I removed all the engine case bolts to be re-zinced. I have the case held
together at the moment by one sae bolt at the rear (this one has a nut on the
bottom and will pass through the metric hole), and all the side covers are still in
place (they bridge the upper and lower case halves). My theory is that this is
enough to hold everything until the case bolts are back.

I would think that you could remove one bolt without hurting anything....wouldn't
want to start it of course.

Almost every bottom bolt I removed had oil on the bolt shank....makes me wonder
how one flat washer can stop the oil from weeping out.

Regards the chain oiler, you will be amazed at where oil winds up from there. If the
"weep" hole under the drive sprocket happens to wind up down when you park, oil
will run down and under the bike, drip off the pipes, run down the kickstand....you
get the idea. What a mess!

I think the o-ring I cut to plug the hole was a common plumbing type....probably not
the best for oil, but it has worked for years now.

Jim

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2006, 01:56:53 AM »

Quote

Regards the chain oiler, you will be amazed at where oil winds up from there. If the
"weep" hole under the drive sprocket happens to wind up down when you park, oil
will run down and under the bike, drip off the pipes, run down the kickstand....you
get the idea. What a mess!

I hear ya! You can expect to clean the rear rim constantly as well. Next thing to be taken care of, not only is it a mess, but it tends to attract and hold grit, dirt and whatever, then this collects and holds moisture longer than clean surfaces and the cycle goes on.

Oh, and the washers on the bolts, they do look a bit beefy to be sealing washers. Might be prudent to just live with it. The oil issues are so much improved, no more spots on the garage floor. Actually, I had gotten a small disposable alum. tray someplace and put a half inch of cat litter in it. Whenever I parked the bike in the garage, I would slide it under the offending area so I wouldn't be constantly cleaning the floor or tracking oil into the house on my shoes.

cadler · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2006, 05:43:08 AM »

I had to trim mine on the K1.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #21 on:** April 11, 2006, 05:45:32 AM »

Cadler,

Sorry, not following, trim what?

DiscoEd · « **Reply #22 on:** April 23, 2006, 08:07:33 PM »

In following up with the theme of making your own Alternator Cover Gasket, Does anyone know what thickness of gasket material should be used for making the gasket. It seems to me that I read somewhere that the thickness of the alternator cover gasket is critical and that this was a reason for not using some type of gasket making goo.

Best Regards,
DiscoEd

DiscoEd · « **Reply #23 on:** April 24, 2006, 07:02:47 PM »

How about it guys (gals), any ideas on this one?

Thank you,
DiscoEd

Jonesy · « **Reply #24 on:** April 25, 2006, 03:20:48 PM »

Quote from: DiscoEd on April 23, 2006, 08:07:33 PM

In following up with the theme of making your own Alternator Cover Gasket, Does anyone know what thickness of gasket material should be used for making the gasket. It seems to me that I read somewhere that the thickness of the alternator cover gasket is critical and that this was a reason for not using some type of gasket making goo.

Best Regards,
DiscoEd

Somebody used gasket goo on mine and I never had any problems, except for the oil leak...

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #25 on:** April 25, 2006, 03:24:41 PM »

Quote

In following up with the theme of making your own Alternator Cover Gasket, Does anyone know what thickness of gasket material should be used for making the gasket. It seems to me that I read somewhere that the thickness of the alternator cover gasket is critical and that this was a reason for not using some type of gasket making goo.

Is the theory behind this that a thicker gasket would alter the relationship between the alternator parts? Seems like it would have to be very thick to do that. I was prepared to cut my own (until I realized my mistake positioning the new stock one). The material I was going to use seemed ever so slightly thicker, but also seemed like it might compress slight more.

DiscoEd · « **Reply #26 on:** April 25, 2006, 03:35:29 PM »

Quote from: Bob Wessner on April 25, 2006, 03:24:41 PM

Is the theory behind this that a thicker gasket would alter the relationship between the alternator parts? Seems like it would have to be very thick to do that. I was prepared to cut my own (until I realized my mistake positioning the new stock one). The material I was going to use seemed ever so slightly thicker, but also seemed like it might compress slight more.

Bob,
Yes, I beleive the relationship of the alternator parts was the issue that I'd heard of. I'm just not sure if there is any validity to it.
I've got a new gasket coming for mine, but I'm not sure that I can wait that long. So if I could find out what the correct material is, I might try to cut one.

Jonesy, is implying above that the goo works. I just don't know how comfy I feel with that.

Regards,
DiscoEd

techy5025 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 28, 2006, 09:54:49 AM »

The thickness of the gasket might change the exact positioning of the
rotor with respect to the stator, but there are many tolerances that
affect that including the crankshaft positioning tolerances. I think small
gaskets thickness variances would be FS 'n P.

Jim

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2006, 10:11:06 AM »

Quote

FS 'n P

techy5025 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2006, 07:09:56 PM »

Bob.... Fly S*** 'n the Pepper.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #30 on:** April 28, 2006, 07:11:53 PM »

Ah! <light bulb going on>

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Author Topic: K0 Alternator Cover Gasket Problem (Read 4248 times)