Topic: Wiring Problems- 77 CB550F (with pics)

[benjamin550]

So, I'm not very good with  wiring, but now i'm completely lost.  It seems as though one of the PO's did some "custom" wiring of their own, sometimes by just cutting wires, sometimes by using Duct tape. Non of my blinkers are working and ive been trying to track down the problem. Consulting the wiring diagram in the manual isnt helping either. It seems as though my wiring does not match up with anything I can find in the manual, maybe someone can tell me if mine is normal. I have two wires coming from each front blinker (Left- O, OW and Right- B and BW) but neither one seems to have the third green wire coming from it shown in the diagrams. I cant find any trace of it. Furthermore there are some other "modifications" by the PO. One next to the fuse box where two green wires were cut than then ties off together(see pic) It these are untied then no lights work. then another under the seat where a green wire is cut and missing. (pic). There is also another empty green connection under the seat. (pic) The guage cluster I believe is from a 550k, but all of the wires seemed to hook up properly. I know its probably not possible to diagnose my problems from the info given, but maybe someone could suggest places to start eliminating things.

Thanks
Kohl

[benjamin550]

another pic

[TwoTired]

Consulting the wiring diagram in the manual isnt helping either. It seems as though my wiring does not match up with anything I can find in the manual, maybe someone can tell me if mine is normal.

It's normal if you are using the Clymer manuals.
It would also help to be certain your bike is actually an F model, rather than a K model mistaken as an an F, and then use the correct diagram in the Honda Shop Manual as reference.  (I like to verify basics when troubleshooting.)

I have two wires coming from each front blinker (Left- O, OW and Right- B and BW) but neither one seems to have the third green wire coming from it shown in the diagrams. I cant find any trace of it.

The Green wire electrically connects with the bulb base, which contacts the socket, which contacts the mounting stalk, which contacts the fork ear, which contact the headlight mounting bolt, where in the inside the headlight shell it a nut where green wires attach and connect to the green in the main harness.

The fuse box area has major alterations, likely due to the abuse of allowing the clips to oxidize too severely.  They will continue to cause problems if the contacts are not cleaned and polished bright and shiny where the fuse makes contact.  Many just replace the entire fuse panel, rather than give it the attention it periodically needs.  Yours has been pretty badly abused.  It can be made to work reliably, but, you may wish to consider a replacement.

I can't really see what's going on in the area next to the fuse block,  But, whatever it is, it's ugly.  You should start referencing connections by the color code of the main harness connections.  At least those are Honda convention, regardless of what been added by a PO.

The -4A picture shows holding the harness green ground connection.  I've no clue why it isn't used.  Maybe the PO couldn't find the proper bullet connectors for it?

The Connector in -6A is not Honda.  The wire codes will only mean anything if referenced to the main wire harness colors.

I don't know what you are trying to show in -7A.  The green wire being held isn't normally there.  But in the background I can see the two headlight mount nuts with green wires attached.  Those are your turn signal green wire connections which, when installed, provide the ground for the front signals.

Hope this helps,

[benjamin550]

TT- Thanks for the help. It is in fact a 550f and I am using the honda manual diagram, not clymer or Haynes. I looked both the "general" diagram as well as the "US and Canada" version. Both included green wires that were not there on mine. I guess cleaning/ replacing the fuse box is a good place to start and just go from there? I am totally lost with electronics, especially since there have been so many alterations. Since it is so messed up, where would you recommend starting to trace a problem?

[TwoTired]

Ok.
You should be using the Wiring Diagram For the CB550 F 2, USA (I'm assuming it is US model bike.)  Supplement 20  Pg 190 in my manual.

Understand the Wire diagram is an electrical representation, not mechanical one.
As such, I can tell you that there never was a green wire that went all the way out to the bulb socket.  The diagram just shows the electrical path in order to understand circuit function.  I already explained the electrical path used by the bike.

The Green wire electrically connects with the bulb base, which contacts the socket, which contacts the mounting stalk, which contacts the fork ear, which contacts the headlight mounting bolt, where on the inside the headlight shell it a nut where green wires attach and connect to the green in the main harness.
Picture -7A ... in the background I can see the two headlight mount nuts with green wires attached.  Those are your turn signal green wire connections which, when installed, provide the ground for the front signals.

You must have those headlight mount nuts installed to get a green wire electrical path to the turn signals.  Electrical conductivity does not necessarily need a wire for conduction.  Any old piece of metal will conduct electricity.

Since it is so messed up, where would you recommend starting to trace a problem?

You start by defining the problem to solve.  Stop thinking about the electrical as a whole, but rather an assemblage of circuits that can work independently.  Define a problem to solve and work to fix that, then go on to the next.

I need to know more about what your goals are, if you have a working battery, have a multimeter (what kind, and any knowledge to use it.)
Does the bike run?

Cheers,

[benjamin550]

TT- Thank again. Explaining it like that helps to wrap my head around it. Here are some details. The bike runs (needs carbs synced thought), Headlight and taillight work as do the hi/lo, gauge lights and a few of the idiot lights (need to replace bulbs) so really right now it is just my blinkers that are not working at all. When I first bought the bike, the left blinker would come on steady and stay on, now nothing. The battery is good too. I am getting a multimeter this weekend, but ive not used one before so I'll have to figure that bit out. Im wondering now if it my switch inside my controls since that would explain why all 4 are not working. I will test it with the multimeter this weekend too see.

kohl

[TwoTired]

Very good.

First, make sure the green wire electrical path is in place physically.

Blinker function:
Use your Voltmeter function on the multimeter to "chase" or follow the voltage path.  For troubleshooting you can save the battery power, by temporarily removing the headlight fuse. (if you can figure out which one that is on your rewired fuse panel.)  Good place to start is at the winker relay.  With the key switch on, the black wire should have battery voltage.  The gray wire should start at Battery voltage and then interrupt power at winking intervals when the L or R is selected.  Many of these winker relays are load dependent, and only blink when the correct load and nominal battery voltage is present, as in engine running.  But, if you have power on the Gray, the bulbs should illuminate.  That's the first part of functionality.  If the lamps are lit brightly, you are good.  If not you must track the power path to the bulbs, to determine where the interruption is in the circuit path.  The Gray wire goes to the turn selector switch where it is routed to either the O or LB wires.  So, probe the O and LB wire for battery power.   Begin probing at the power destination and work back toward the source or probe for voltage at the source and probe at points ever closer to the destination.  At some point you will have "bracketed" the fault position, and can visually inspect to find the circuit break.  There may be multiple points.  If so, fix each one in turn until, the right side lamp go on, and the left side lamps go on with the selector.
Do note that the front indicators have run lights.  These go on with lighting but are dimmer than the turn filaments.  The selector turns these off during flash, so the lamp cycles dark/bright rather than dim bright.

Once you have the bulb lighting, you may have flash issues.  Some flashers need a strong battery and the engine running for them to flash.  Some need the correct bulb to flash correctly 1157/1156 types may not work with the stock flasher.  These need 1034/1073 front/rear to flash at the proper rate.
The stock arrangement allows me to monitor the battery voltage while driving, just by observing the flash rate of the turn signals.  If they flash slow or just stay on, the battery is low.  If they flash quickly, the battery is getting well charged.
There are some people that replace the flasher unit with an electronic one, which flashes at the same rate at whatever the battery voltage is.  There are many types of flashers.  Some begin in the off position, some begin in the On position like the stock one does.  I like the begin on position better, as it makes for a better lane change signal, I reason.

Good Luck!

[bollingball]

All good advice from TT in pic. 2a see that little bare wire under the base holddown screw that is the start  or end of the ground for all 4 blinkers check these closely. One of mine was broken and one damaged from water (no gasket) I just soldered new ground wires to all 4 sockets to give a new dedicated grd. Damn now I'm a PO but with peace of mind. Ran them them to coil bolt grd. The o/w and b/w are the running lights TT referred to.

[benjamin550]

Thanks TT and everyone for the suggestions. I was able to trace the problem from the winker to the switch inside the left side control. The gray wire had power going into the switch, but the orange and  light blue wires didn't have power coming out, so I took a jumper wire and touched the gray power wire to orange blinker wire and guess what?? BLINKERS!! Worked on the LB too. Even the blinker alarm works. Needless to say I was relieved that I didnt have to examine every square inch of wiring on the bike.

On a side note, I tried removing each of the fuses from my fuse box and absolutely nothing happened. It loks like the PO bypassed the whole fuse box and there are no working fuses. I accidentally touched the bare wire coming from the fuse box that he used to bypass it,  and got a nasty shock, or maybe a burn, either way it hurt like hell and will be removed. Time for a Hondaman fuse panel I think.

I found this site to help a lot and I didnt find it in the FAQ, so here it is. Just nice, super basic, intro to multimeter use for motorcycles.

http://www.genebitsystems.com/david/MotorcycleElectrical/index.htm

Thanks again for all the help.

[benjamin550]

BTW, if anyone has a good left side switch for a 77 cb550f lemme know.