Topic: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?

[MRieck]

 External electric crankcase vacuum pumps have been used for years in motorcycle dragracing. They had to limit Pro Stock engines to one pump as folks were using 2. Jay would have more info. Smokey Yunick wrote about this stuff years ago too.

[MRieck]

Route the breather hose directly into your helmet, inhale, fart. Effective for filtering.......

That's near my suggestion for all diesel drivers.  The exhaust system must exit the vehicle at the front rather than the rear, so they, too, get the full benefit of the smoke trail, and not just those unfortunate enough to be behind them.
Seems only fair...
I kinda thought that would be a great pollution control aid.  

Just because you see the diesel smoke, doesn't mean it's any more (or less) harmful than that emitted from a gasoline engine...

Perhaps.  But, it does make me, choke, wheeze, cough, and tear up a lot more.  The human body's rejection seems to be a whole lot more immediate.

I guess I'd rather be killed by something that doesn't make me miserable during the time I've been subjected to it.  

Don't have your mother-in-law live with you TT.

[mystic_1]

Food for thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_valve

History

Prior to the early 1960s, automobile gasoline engines vented combustion gases directly to the atmosphere through a simple vent tube. Frequently this consisted of a pipe (the "road draft tube") that extended out from the crankcase down to the bottom of the engine compartment. The bottom of the pipe was open to the atmosphere, and was placed such that when the car was in motion a slight vacuum would be hopefully obtained, helping to extract combustion gases as they collected in the crankcase. The oil mist would also be discharged, resulting in an oily film being deposited in the middle of each travel lane on heavily-used roads. The system was not positive though, as gases could travel both ways, or not move at all, dependent on conditions. Most modern diesel engines still use this type of system to dispose of crankcase fumes. During World War II however, a different type of crankcase ventilation had to be invented to allow tank engines to operate during deep fording operations, where the normal draft tube ventilator would have allowed water to enter the crankcase and destroy the engine. The PCV system and its control valve were invented to meet this need but the need for it on automobiles was not recognized.

In 1952, Professor A. J. Haagen-Smit, of the California Institute of Technology at Pasadena, postulated that unburned hydrocarbons were a primary constituent of smog, and that gasoline powered automobiles were a major source of those hydrocarbons. After some investigation by the GM Research Laboratory (Dr. Lloyd L. Withrow) it was discovered in 1958 that the road draft tube was a major source, about half, of the hydrocarbons coming from the automobile. GM's Cadillac Division, which had built many tanks during WWII, recognized that the simple PCV valve could be used to become the first major reduction in automotive hydrocarbon emissions. After confirming the PCV valves' effectiveness at hydrocarbon reduction, GM offered the PCV solution to the entire U.S. automobile industry, royalty free, through its trade association, the Automobile Manufacturers Association (AMA). In the absence of any legislated requirement, the AMA members agreed to put it on all California cars voluntarily in the early 1960s, with national application following one year later.

Following its introduction into production, several years later the PCV became the subject of a Federal grand jury investigation in 1967, when it was alleged by some industry critics that the AMA was conspiring to keep several such smog reduction devices like the PCV on the shelf to delay smog control. After eighteen months of investigation by U.S. Attorney Samuel Flatow, the grand jury returned a "no-bill" decision, clearing the AMA, but resulting in a "Consent Decree" that all U.S. automobile companies agreed not to work jointly on smog control activities for a period of ten years.

PCV system

The PCV valve is only one part of the PCV system, which is essentially a variable and calibrated air leak, whereby the engine returns its crankcase combustion gases. Instead of the gases being vented to the atmosphere, gases are fed back into the intake manifold, to re-enter the combustion chamber as part of a fresh charge of air and fuel. The PCV system is not a classical "vacuum leak." All the air collected by the air cleaner (and metered by the mass air flow sensor, on a fuel injected engine) goes through the intake manifold. The PCV system just diverts a small percentage of this air via the breather to the crankcase before allowing it to be drawn back in to the intake tract again. It is an "open system" in that fresh exterior air is continuously used to flush contaminants from the crankcase and into the combustion chamber.

The system relies on the fact that, while the engine is running, the intake manifold's air pressure is always less than crankcase air pressure. The lower pressure of the intake manifold draws air towards it, pulling air from the breather through the crankcase (where it dilutes and mixes with combustion gases), through the PCV valve, and into the intake manifold.

The PCV system consists of the breather tube and the PCV valve. The breather tube connects the crankcase to a clean source of fresh air, such as the air cleaner body. Usually, clean air from the air cleaner flows in to this tube and in to the engine after passing through a screen, baffle, or other simple system to arrest a flame front, to prevent a potentially explosive atmosphere within the engine crank case from being ignited from a back-fire in to the intake manifold. The baffle, filter, or screen also traps oil mist, and keeps it inside the engine.

Once inside the engine, the air circulates around the interior of the engine, picking up and clearing away combustion byproduct gases, including a large amount of water vapor, then exits through a simple baffle, screen or mesh to trap oil droplets before being drawn out through the PCV valve, and into the intake manifold.

PCV valve

The PCV valve connects the crankcase to the intake manifold from a location more-or-less opposite the breather connection. Typical locations include the opposite valve cover that the breather tube connects to on a V engine. A typical location is the valve cover(s), although some engines place the valve in locations far from the valve cover. The valve is simple, but actually performs a complicated control function. An internal restrictor (generally a cone or ball) is held in "normal" (engine off, zero vacuum) position with a light spring, exposing the full size of the PCV opening to the intake manifold. With the engine running, the tapered end of the cone is drawn towards the opening in the PCV valve, restricting the opening proportionate to the level of engine vacuum vs. spring tension. At idle, the intake manifold vacuum is near maximum. It is at this time the least amount of blow by is actually occurring, so the PCV valve provides the largest amount of (but not complete) restriction. As engine load increases, vacuum on the valve decreases proportionally and blow by increases proportionally. Sensing a lower level of vacuum, the spring returns the cone to the "open" position to allow more air flow. At full throttle, there is nearly zero vacuum. At this point the PCV valve is nearly useless, and most combustion gases escape via the "breather tube" where they are then drawn in to the engine's intake manifold anyway. a

Operation

Should the intake manifold's pressure be higher than that of the crankcase (which can happen in a turbo charged engine or under certain conditions, such as an intake backfire), the PCV valve closes to prevent reversal of the exhausted air back into the crankcase again. Positive is not a synonym for 'one way', but for 'real', 'definite', 'incontestable' i.e. one of its other meanings. It simply means there is a constant and definite flow of air through the system, as compared to the hit-and-miss road draught system used previously, in which air may flow in either direction or not at all. In many cases PCV valves were only used for a few years, the function being taken over by a port on constant depression carburettors such as the SU. This has no moving parts or diaphragm to jam, block or rip like many PCV valves. It also doesn't have a 'one-way' function but the lack of it was never a problem in intake backfire.

It is critical that the parts of the PCV system be kept clean and open, otherwise air flow will be insufficient. A plugged or malfunctioning PCV system will eventually damage an engine. PCV problems are primarily due to neglect or poor maintenance, typically engine oil change intervals that are inadequate for the engine's driving conditions. A poorly-maintained engine's PCV system will eventually become contaminated with sludge, causing serious problems. If the engine's lubricating oil is changed with adequate frequency, the PCV system will remain clear practically for the life of the engine. However, since the valve is operating continuously as one operates the vehicle, it will fail over time. Typical maintenance schedules for gasoline engines include PCV valve replacement whenever the air filter or spark plugs are replaced. The long life of the valve despite the harsh operating environment is due to the trace amount of oil droplets suspended in the air that flows through the valve that keep it lubricated. Not all gasoline engines have PCV valves. Engines not subject to emission controls, such as certain off-road engines, retain road draft tubes. Dragsters use a scavenger system and venturi tube in the exhaust to draw out combustion gases and maintain a small amount of vacuum in the crankcase to prevent oil leaks on to the race track. Small gasoline two stroke engines use the crank case to compress incoming air. All blow by in these engines is burned in the regular flow of air and fuel through the engine. Many small four-cycle engines such as lawn mower engines and small gasoline generators, simply use a draft tube connected to the intake, between the air filter and carburetor, to route all blow by back into the intake mixture. The higher operating temperature of these small engines has a side effect of preventing large amounts of water vapor and light hydrocarbons from condensing in the engine oil.

mystic_1

[brettster26]

so what do you do with the breather tube when you install pod filters?  Seems like this went off topic and never really got a good answer could really use the help!

[MCRider]

so what do you do with the breather tube when you install pod filters?  Seems like this went off topic and never really got a good answer could really use the help!

Without reading the earlier pages, I'd say you just route it between 2 & 3 carbs, down to behind the engine, in front of the swingarm. That's where it went on the early models before it was routed into the airbox, on the later models. Just open to the atmosphere. (The breather from the cam cover?)

[Leanier]

Without getting into the enviromental side of things, I'd second MCRiders post.  my bike came with pods, hadn't been touched since the mid eighty's, looks like it was used for racing, or some guy who like to go fast.  its a 73, breather hose right down to the bracket where the carb overflows go (follows the frame most of the way there so its out of the way).

[Blitzburgh207]

I was thinking about this too when I took mine apart the other day.  I really like the idea of running it under the seat in that little papers pocket (like was previously shown) because it's nice and clean looking.  But does it make a big sticky mess in there?  Would it be better to stick it like under the swing arm or somewhere low on the bike?

[cameron]

You shouldn't have a gas lawnmower either. They produce 93 times the emissions of a car, gallon for gallon.  No catalytic converter.

[TwoTired]

You shouldn't have a gas lawnmower either. They produce 93 times the emissions of a car, gallon for gallon.  No catalytic converter.

Jez, get real.  I don't think I use a gallon of gas in the mower over an entire year.  How the heck is that comparable to auto use/consumption?

I observe that you also exhaled CO2 at least 93 times more than a dead person.  By the same line of "reasoning", we shouldn't have any live people, either.

If brain washing was easy, everybody would do it.   

...oh wait...

[cameron]

Except you can easily use an electric lawn mower.
OR A PUSH!

BWAHAHAHA!

Actually, forget the push.. that #$%* sucks.
But an electric? I think yes!

Burning gasoline and dumping the emmisions straight into everyones lungs for the sole purpose of saving a little effort in order to HAVE A NICE LAWN is an idea whose time has run out.

War? Famine? Disease? Global Extinction?
I will put up with these things to ride.. but not to cut my lawn.

Electriclawnmower4life!

And check the multiple! 93 times!
You would have to burn 93 gallons to match the emissions that your 1-gallon per year puts out.
That means a modern motorcyclist easily puts out less emissions in a year than your lawnmower, (given 1 gallon of lawnmower use and 5k miles/year moto-riding.)

For reals.