Author Topic: Bike died. Might be the end of it. (Read 24354 times)

Hush · « **Reply #50 on:** April 04, 2011, 03:49:45 AM »

Don't be too afriad of a motor that has been sitting around for a while, mine had been out of the bike for 2 years and I just changed the oil and that is pretty much it, still going daily rider 3 years later.

Old motors removed because the bike was pranged will be fine with a carb clean out a new set of plugs and a fresh battery, wish I was a few thousand miles closer to give you a hand AJ, believe me that sucker would be on the deck in pieces by now.
I fix other people's bikes for free just to see them run again and learn new things, must be someone close who can go hands on with yours!

GammaFlat · « **Reply #51 on:** April 04, 2011, 04:33:49 AM »

Quote from: Anti-Johnny on April 03, 2011, 09:47:40 PM

I was directed to someone a couple hours away that has a couple engines. He doesnt know the history on them other than they were stored indoors. He's going to do a compression check and see if they run through gears. The price is affordable enough that if it is a dud that I can part it out to recover cost. I have pictures but Ill post them later when I know what the tests show.

In your case, you are best with a CB750K 69-76 engine. Others will work but you'll potentially have issues with chain alignment. Here's a list of serial numbers/years/types: http://www.hondachopper.com/engine/engine_timeline/timeline.html.

wrenchmuch · « **Reply #52 on:** April 04, 2011, 02:07:55 PM »

Here are some pics of 2 bearing retainers next to a stock piston ring .
Piston ring on the right , clutch side retainer for the main shaft on the left , transmission side retainer for the main shaft in the middle . If the engine still runs its most likely a retainer and not a piston ring fragment . A clogged oil screen will slow or cut off oil delivery to the transmission and oil tank as it supplies the scavange side of the pump . The other side of the pump draws its supply from the tank and supplies the crank and head with oil via the filter . This is the circuit your pressure gauge is reading from . A drop in pressure will starve the head first . This can seize the camshaft and stop the engine . This happened to me when the orifice in the head became blocked . 20 mins later I drove it 2 miles to home . The cam ,some rockers and the cam bearings on 1 side were toast . Once the engine is out take the cam cover off first and leave the head on . I bet you find damage in there . Check compression first though . You can split the cases with the top end assembled . Parts might not be as much as you think . I have a used camshaft somewhere you can have for shipping if you need it .
Mike

Anti-Johnny · « **Reply #53 on:** April 04, 2011, 04:09:30 PM »

Quote from: wrenchmuch on April 04, 2011, 02:07:55 PM

Here are some pics of 2 bearing retainers next to a stock piston ring .
Piston ring on the right , clutch side retainer for the main shaft on the left , transmission side retainer for the main shaft in the middle . If the engine still runs its most likely a retainer and not a piston ring fragment . A clogged oil screen will slow or cut off oil delivery to the transmission and oil tank as it supplies the scavange side of the pump . The other side of the pump draws its supply from the tank and supplies the crank and head with oil via the filter . This is the circuit your pressure gauge is reading from . A drop in pressure will starve the head first . This can seize the camshaft and stop the engine . This happened to me when the orifice in the head became blocked . 20 mins later I drove it 2 miles to home . The cam ,some rockers and the cam bearings on 1 side were toast . Once the engine is out take the cam cover off first and leave the head on . I bet you find damage in there . Check compression first though . You can split the cases with the top end assembled . Parts might not be as much as you think . I have a used camshaft somewhere you can have for shipping if you need it .
Mike

Thanks for this information. And the encouragement to dig into it. I dont guess anyone can tell from my first picture which one mine is. I think it might have been thrown out.

The engine would still run. So maybe this is the direction I should go. I dont have any new information yet on the other engines. So I will try to get my engine out soon. Its a fairly large hassle to coordinate everyone to get it out and then get it back here. Its about 20 miles away. I do have a meathead friend with a truck, so we should be able to get it up the one flight of stairs.

So at this point I think I have decided that I dont gain enough from selling it how it is. So that is out.

Get it running.. Get it running.. thats all I can think. Either to sell it and get something more reliable or to make it a weekend rider.

Stev-o · « **Reply #54 on:** April 04, 2011, 05:42:40 PM »

AJ - where are the engines? I have a truck and possibly can help w/transporting?? And maybe I'll buy one too, to get a better deal.

Really? · « **Reply #55 on:** April 04, 2011, 06:29:30 PM »

Quote from: Stev-o on April 04, 2011, 05:42:40 PM

AJ - where are the engines? I have a truck and possibly can help w/transporting?? And maybe I'll buy one too, to get a better deal.

Stev-o will travel, it may take a while though.

Anti-Johnny · « **Reply #56 on:** April 04, 2011, 07:39:08 PM »

The engines are in houston. I dont know if he will be selling both. I dont have a lot of information yet. When I get some solid information on any types of testing he can do I will post it and get more opinions.

I am leaning more toward the swap and pray at the moment. Looking through the price of parts and gaskets and the time factor for a noob like me is not feasible at the moment.

mjstone · « **Reply #57 on:** April 04, 2011, 08:27:05 PM »

Here's a thought, AJ. How about do the swap but keep your old engine. Take your time and rebuild it, I mean go through it completely. Even if it takes a couple of years to get it done, end result could be an engine you can trust and a whole lot of knowledge gained. If your swapped engine still runs good then sell it after you sure your rebuilt engine is sound. Probably get a lot more money for known running engine, I would think.

MJ

Anti-Johnny · « **Reply #58 on:** April 04, 2011, 09:51:24 PM »

thats the plan Senor Stone. I'm hoping HondaMans book goes on sale again in the future. I'm definitely going to need a play by play. And expect to see a lot of posts in the future along the lines of "wtf is this thing" and "look what I left out"

I just hope everything works out with a new engine. Three scenarios with it;

1) works great, I keep riding it (this is what I am hoping for)
2) works alright, I sell it as a runner that needs work, buy something newer and wait til I can actually afford to restore something. There are many non running 750s around here that I could probably get for very little.
3) it doesnt work, I sell the bike with the new engine and part out the old one, see if thats enough for a down payment and a cosigner. I am hoping for around 800-1000 in non running shape and around 2000 for runner with work needed.

A lot of lessoned learned with this bike. The biggest one might be to be a little more careful with my financial risks. Just a little though. I am a big fan of risk. This was just the perfect time for a busted engine to screw me over.

Hush · « **Reply #59 on:** April 05, 2011, 03:37:38 AM »

Did anyone else's ears prick up when he said "there are many non running 750's around here which he could get for probably very little"?

Them's fight'n words!

Dang you Texans are lucky, a non running 750 (if I could find one) would still be in the $1000 area here in New Zealand, wonder what a container would cost to freight from Texas to NZ?

Really? · « **Reply #60 on:** April 05, 2011, 04:46:11 AM »

That one in Pampa is back on eBay. Good luck finding any around the Dallas area.

Anti-Johnny · « **Reply #61 on:** April 05, 2011, 07:02:52 AM »

Well I know of a couple at least in an amateur bone yard. They probably dont have titles, and there is enough rust on them to feed a small family of canadians, but they are 750s. One is an F.

So one of these engines seems to have compression. He was able to put wd40 in the spark plug holes and the next morning the engine turns over smoothly and pops his fingers off the holes. Are there any other tests that might be done to show that it might run fine? I have a couple days to make a decision on it, so any other steps to take would be appreciated. Hows seeing if the gears shift smoothly with it like it sits?

chickenman_26 · « **Reply #62 on:** April 05, 2011, 07:10:10 AM »

Quote from: Anti-Johnny on April 05, 2011, 07:02:52 AM

So one of these engines seems to have compression. He was able to put wd40 in the spark plug holes and the next morning the engine turns over smoothly and pops his fingers off the holes.

15 psi would pop his fingers off the holes. That test doesn't tell you anything meaningful. But the fact that he needed an overnight soak in WD-40 to free the engine likely mean's there's rust damage in the bores.

Quote

Are there any other tests that might be done to show that it might run fine?

An actual compression test using a gauge and/or a cylinder leakage test. But he'd have already done that if he was capable.

Stu

gnarlycharlie4u · « **Reply #63 on:** April 05, 2011, 01:16:43 PM »

Quote from: Anti-Johnny on April 02, 2011, 08:48:43 PM

It has been shifting strange the last few days. Sometimes it was very hard to change gears and sometimes slip out of them.

Ive sort of familiarized myself with the top end components from reading through builds, but I dont know anything about the bottom end.

I'll make arrangements to get the engine out of the bike. its in Austin now. Think I could get it in a large tupperware bin and transport it to my apartment? How much does this thing weigh? Ive got a medical condition(another money pit) so I am weaker than most, will I be able to get all the bolts out that hold this thing together? I have a respectable craftsman set that has general sockets and wrenches. Will I need specialty tools to break any of it down?

impact drivers are your friend. even a cheap one and some patience can save you a fortune in bolts and headaches.

sorry to hear about your situation, I wish I could help out but I don't even have a running bike myself. Just 5 piles of parts haha.
Luckily the sohc isn't really a complicated motor. Take it slow. Doublecheck everything and any time you have a question, post it here and I'll do what I can to assist.

Good luck.

Quote from: Hush on April 05, 2011, 03:37:38 AM

Did anyone else's ears prick up when he said "there are many non running 750's around here which he could get for probably very little"?
Them's fight'n words!
Dang you Texans are lucky, a non running 750 (if I could find one) would still be in the $1000 area here in New Zealand, wonder what a container would cost to freight from Texas to NZ?

I drooled and started packing my tools to head to Texas.

Hush · « **Reply #64 on:** April 05, 2011, 02:29:49 PM »

Put the wreck bike on it's main stand and turn the back wheel by hand, as you do shift through the gears, this won't tell you much but will let you know the gears are still in there and engaging, I'd take a gamble on that motor if it was me, there big 4's are incredibly resilient to being left and then restarted.

wrenchmuch · « **Reply #65 on:** April 05, 2011, 02:36:59 PM »

An engine that's been sitting a while might show bad compression figures from stuck rings . The rings might free themselves up after being run for a little while or the compression might stay low or uneven between cylinders . Its a crap shoot without a compression gauge . Gauges with long rubber hoses will read lower than a gauge with a short metal hard line . Compression figures quoted in the Honda manuals are only meaningful if you have the Honda shop gauge . Look for values within 10% across all cylinders . An engine with a burned exhaust valve will push your thumb off the plug hole . Was it stuck before he soaked it with 40 ? Get some compression readings and post them .

Randy · « **Reply #66 on:** April 05, 2011, 03:17:08 PM »

Naw.. its done for..i'll get you 50 bucks for it...lol..Good luck with it..

HB-1fan · « **Reply #67 on:** April 05, 2011, 08:29:18 PM »

AJ,
I might have a deal for you! I bought an engine last wk that had been completely gone through for $350. Meaning new hone and rings with any parts out of Honda specs being replaced. It is clean inside and out. Ready 2 run! Any parts replaced were with honda NOS parts. He rebuilt 5 of them(one for him and one for his son and three extra) and this is the last one. They were all K1 to K6 engines. I got it for future refrence.
Just spent $500 unexpectedly on another project(another good deal) and could use to recoup some of it.

If you can get it from Orlando to you or someone here can help with transport you can have it for the $350.

Let me know!,
HB

Anti-Johnny · « **Reply #68 on:** April 05, 2011, 08:43:34 PM »

Thanks for all the support guys. I often get very frustrated and jump to conclusions. I think I have to try this other engine out. It wont be for a couple weeks before I have it though. Then finals and papers to write. I should be ready to go for the next co op at least.

I got some more information on the engine. It looks good by my foolish eye. Its clean anyway. Has stock screws in it. It has a dealer lower case (I think thats the right term) so it has been repaired at least once. But the guy that has it was able to get it to turn over without any ATF or anything. I was mistaken about the wd40 as an unstick measure, it was only for lubricant. And we all know how important lubricant is.

Several people want me to try and get it running and then sell it. Oh boy I dont want to do that. Its so much fun to learn and work on it. This other engine will be a big unknown though. I have gotten the bike looking pretty nice in my opinion. I know its the "cafe" style. But it was cheap and made it more pleasing to the eye. I'm sure there are many that have spent more time on here, but in the six months I've been around I've spent 22 days or something like that logged in. And I have barely done any work on the bike. You guys are just so fun and knowledgeable and nice. The bike has led me to the co op and other guys in the community. I've learned motorcycle people are the nicest, friendliest people Ive ever dealt with. I mean real motorcycle people, not just owners. Ugh gushy. back to masculine.

So I have a lot of time to think about everything. Take a step back. I will be here for six weeks then off to europe for 2 months. So august to think about what to do.

I need to start reading on how to prepare the new engine for putting it in the bike. If anyone has useful links I would appreciate them. I ll be reading and searching on my own, but tehre is a lot of double information on here. I was able to "preview" hondamans book for the removal process, but thats where it cuts off. If anyone wants to loan me their copy, I can pay shipping both ways.

To the question about the bigger pictures that popout, I am just linking large pictures from my drop box folder.

Sign up with this link and I get more space, do it even if you dont plan to use it. Its like photobucket but you can upload any file. Its two gigs for free and you get something like 250mb more for each referral.

http://db.tt/TusZTDn

Anti-Johnny · « **Reply #69 on:** April 05, 2011, 09:03:17 PM »

Quote from: HB-1fan on April 05, 2011, 08:29:18 PM

AJ,
I might have a deal for you! I bought an engine last wk that had been completely gone through for $350. Meaning new hone and rings with any parts out of Honda specs being replaced. It is clean inside and out. Ready 2 run! Any parts replaced were with honda NOS parts. He rebuilt 5 of them(one for him and one for his son and three extra) and this is the last one. They were all K1 to K6 engines. I got it for future refrence.
Just spent $500 unexpectedly on another project(another good deal) and could use to recoup some of it.

If you can get it from Orlando to you or someone here can help with transport you can have it for the $350.

Let me know!,
HB

HB thats really awesome. Hold onto that engine for me. I will give this engine a shot to see if it gets me going, I will PM you in a bit. If nothing works out, I can break both mine down and recover enough to get that one. Ill let you know. That gives me an option to keep this bike either way.

gnarlycharlie4u · « **Reply #70 on:** April 05, 2011, 10:56:04 PM »

Bike looks good bud. You're definitely off to a great start!

Really? · « **Reply #71 on:** April 06, 2011, 08:01:00 AM »

Hey AJ, that bike looks really good!!

If you decide to paint the tank emblems, let me know. It is actually an easy sequence of things to do and it is low cost. The script emblems, are those LPM's painted or OEM?

Anti-Johnny · « **Reply #72 on:** April 08, 2011, 09:37:07 AM »

So what I have been up to is,

I put my bike on CL for a ridiculous amount. This is to appease my girlfriend and other friends that think the bike was just too unreliable for primary transport anyway.

Unfortunately/fortunately maybe, I got about 20 emails about it and several people to come look at it. I guess there is just too many folks with money in Austin.

I have made arrangements to get this Houston engine. I should have it by next week. Will be reading about how to do a swap and sacrificing any cats I come across to whichever pagan god seems reasonable that day in hopes that this engine works.

I flip back and forth between thinking its not reasonable for primary transportation and just loving the bike too much to be reasonable.

So I have been looking at other bikes just to see what I can afford and what fits me. I had hoped this bike would be able to take me back and forth between here and el paso/midland to see my family. I think thats out of the question even if this other engine works alright. Its just going to be a big unknown.

I've looked at katanas and sv650/s, v-stroms ninja 650s... even some cruiser types. I guess the standard motorcycles are what I am looking at that keep my insurance reasonable and give me an option to travel.

My price range is around 3500 if I have to sell this bike in whatever condition it is in. I wont have time to work on it for the next 5 weeks. Then I have to leave for two months, then I'll be right where I am now with school starting and no ride.

This is all just postulation I guess. Maybe this Houston engine will be fantastic and put me at ease completely. Or maybe I build a bonfire and cook the bike!!! jk...

HondaMan · « **Reply #73 on:** April 08, 2011, 10:53:38 AM »

Quote from: Anti-Johnny on April 08, 2011, 09:37:07 AM

... This is to appease my girlfriend and other friends that think the bike was just too unreliable for primary transport anyway.

IMHO, there has yet to be another bike as reliable as the CB750 SOHC4. With even poor maintenance, these bikes regularly high 80k miles with no major problems. The problems like the ones you describe in this post come from owners who took them apart for [whatever reason] and mis-assembled them afterward. If the bikes are then properly reassembled, they outlast the owner's desire to keep riding them.

andy750 · « **Reply #74 on:** April 08, 2011, 10:59:55 AM »

Get a Vstrom if you want reliability...I did and got 10,000 trouble free miles last year. And the bike fits in your budget. But then I also think the CB750 is very reliable once its been taken care of.

Good luck
Andy

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Author Topic: Bike died. Might be the end of it. (Read 24354 times)