Topic: AGM battery

[Really?]

It may be in the wording.  AGM technology.  It uses parts of an AGM battery but is not fully an AGM battery.

The making us do the work to cut costs sounds plausible too!  Anyway to put it on the peon as long as it does not hurt the executives paycheck and stocks payout each quarter.

[bollingball]

I wonder if anyone has cut the top of a (dead) TRUE AGM and turned it upside down to see if anything runs out? I am starting to get a HEADACHE maybe I need to be recharged

[HondaMan]

It also says "sealed lead acid" on the box, or SLA.  SLA and AGM are not the same thing.  I think whoever makes the batteries for sears may be trying to confuse people even further.

J:
Love your avatar! Is that you getting ready to scoot out on that SuperHawk?

[Prospect]

It also says "sealed lead acid" on the box, or SLA.  SLA and AGM are not the same thing.  I think whoever makes the batteries for sears may be trying to confuse people even further.

J:
Love your avatar! Is that you getting ready to scoot out on that SuperHawk?

I think that's Steve McQueen.

[Bido]

Big Crank is the way to go. bigcrank.com

Bido

[Gonzowerke]

My S1000RR has an AGM battery. BMW(Breakout More Waddage(as in wad of cash)) wants almost 2 whole clams for a replacement! It is a totally sealed brick with no plugs or ports, just the two terminals.
Seems I need a special $165 charger for it too.
If the charging system on the bike can charge it, why can't my regular charger? As far as I know, it has a conventional solid-state regulated charging system with a 470 Watt Alternator.

[Gonzowerke]

Oh, and just to muddy the water a bit, here is a discussion of Li-Ion batteries!

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-battery/li-ion-motorcycle-battery/shorai-vs-ballistic-li-ion-motorcycle-battery.htm

[bollingball]

Gonzowerke: No need to spend that kind of money for the charger. What brand and model are you talking about I would like to read about it. It most be a temperature compensating 4 or 5 stage. Take a look at these

http://www.compacc.com/p/Yuasa-Smart-Shot-12V-1-5-Amp-Battery-Charger
It is my understanding the larger the battery the longer it will take to charge it but it will charge it.
And read this about chargers  http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_chargers.html

Better yet on price http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=282952&store=&catId=&productId=p282952&leafCatId=&mmyId=

[crazypj]

Maintenance Free Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) Technology is an advanced battery design used in Yuasa's Maintenance Free Batteries that eliminates water loss. Once it's filled with acid the battery is permanently sealed - so you'll never need to fill it with water or check the acid level.

 There's the answer
  AGM = Absorbed Glass Mat.
 It means all the free electrolyte (acid) is absorbed into a glass mat
There is no free liquid to slosh around.
 If you read all the instructions, you have to fill them and allow to stand with tops off for a few hours,(to allow absorption)
The time varies depending on manufacture date.
Some are filled and sealed at factory, but, they generally have a limited shelf life.
 Filling 'at home' isn't to cut costs, it's to allow consumer to put a 'brand new' battery into service.
 AGM batteries generally need a special charger as they like exact volts (~14 max) and higher amps for initial charge, although I've checked 'factory sealed' which show 22v~23v when installed (thought there was a problem with my meter )
They are not magic

[cameron]

But what they will do to your bike is!

Magic, that is.

[Skunk Stripe]

Some are filled and sealed at factory, but, they generally have a limited shelf life.

This is why you get a quality battery. Mine has a 2 year warranty for virtually anything unless I drop it.

[Gaither]

Evidently Crazypj has it figured out.

Feb. 15, I asked for an AGM battery and  bought a Yuasa AGM CYTX14AH-BS (Mfg # M62H4A) at Interstate Batteries (local store) for $64.95 + tax.

Interstate calls it "CYCLE-TRON II" on the box (which has Yuasa literature in it). Also on the box is "Marketed by Interstate Batteries". ***Also on the box is "Absorvbed Glass Mat".

***They filled it on the counter as I watched and then applied a permanent seal.

That puzzled me. The guy said some come in filled and sealed and some have to be filled and sealed when put into service. He also said to never attempt to remove the seal. So, you CAN buy 'em BOTH ways.

Obviously, not all bike batteries are the same size and/or application. They don't know how soon they will sell a specific battery. So, for extended shelf life, they get their bike batteries shipped in dry.

***IF this IS NOT an AGM, then, Yuasa, and their enclosed literature, Interstate Batteries and their literature and box and the guy I dealt with have all LIED. Just one lawsuit would make all of 'em regret their misrepresentation (and they are well aware of that).

I'm convinced it actually is an AGM.

The beauty this particlar battery is 360 Cold Cranking Amps! It spins the 550 really FAST! It has never been on a charger. An "always hard to start cold" engine is now running after 3 to 6 revolutions - cold.  With 360 CCA, the starter AND the ignition are BOTH getting the juice  required to start the engine. What a welcome improvement!!!

FWIW, the guy said a Battery Tender would be fine to use on this battery and would be good to use if the battery had to sit for more than 3 months. Trick is, don't allow an AGM to get badly discharged before charging it.

Of course, there are other batteries and other opinions. To each his own.

[bollingball]

Gaither: Thanks for the reply. I have been to 6 stores 4 of them had the do it yourself AGM the other 2 were sealed at the factory. I think you have a good point about doing it at home. Heck Yuasa makes them they ought to know. So now I'm changing my position and going to do it at home. Good to know it has not been sulfating on the shelf for a year or two.
tipper: looks like you got one after all. sears has two on that link you posted. Which one did you get. I think some of the other people just have not seen the fill at home type it looks like this way of doing it it is new glad I started this. I learned something and hope others have too.

[Really?]

I could not locate the one I got so I used that link for reference.  It was on the shelf at sears and it is a Die Hard.  I tried to find the number but it is behind the battery tray and I could not locate the receipt.  It is PITA the get those screws to go in the nuts.  Why they can't make that easier is beyond me.

I think it was about $55.

I just started searching again but cannot find it.  All I find are the black batteries and mine is white.  Maybe they changed the color.  I did read that they are Yuasa with the Die Hard label.

[Skunk Stripe]

Well good to know on all of this. Must be pretty new thing. i still think it gives manufacturers a way out on bad battery though.

[ColinMc]

Wish I had seen this earlier...every AGM i've ever bought had to be filled by me, no fill lines you just put ALL the acid in that comes in a self puncturing container that puts the precise amount in ever section. Let it sit...put the permanent strip across the top...bamo it's sealed.

I think there might be some confusion between GEL cell battery technology with AGM technology...

[crazypj]

Most  but not all Gel-Cell batteries are filled at factory.
 The acid activates 'something' and it transforms into an acid 'paste or 'gel' (proprietary information, I haven't bothered to search for it)
 ALL new Suzuki's come with 'dry' battery and an acid pack, (AGM)
 I'm pretty sure Kawasaki and Honda do the same (Yamaha use some 'dry' and some Gel)
 Suzuki are refusing to guarantee batteries not filled/installed correctly at dealers, not sure how they can tell difference but I'm sure there is some method of finding out?
 BTW,
all AGM batteries are sealed but they do have a one way valve to prevent explosion through overcharging (it's a 'rubber' valve that opens to allow excess pressure out.
 I think there is a LOT of confusion between AGM , 'Gel' and GRT, all of them are sealed batteries and the terms are thrown around as if there is zero difference

[Gaither]

I admit I was very leary when the guy opened the box and sat the battery on the count and began to fill it. I too thought AGM's came filled and sealed. So, I began to ask questions. (I have dealt with him before on car batteries.0

This guy has been in batteries about 40 years and his explaination made sense. Also, as I said, box, lit., etc. all says AGM. I neglected to ask him when they started shipping 'em dry. May be fairly recently [?].

***IMHO, the CCA is a very important factor that perhaps gets overlooked during a battery purchase. Searching around, I found some AGM's low as 180. This one has 360 CCA @$64.95 retail. After looking around, I was surprised to find one rated that high. The way it spins and starts this ol' 4 cyl amazes (and pleases) me!

Yeah, CCA is a somewhat misleading number when viewed technically. However, it is about all you can normally find out. And, why buy a low CCA battery?? I ALWAYS  go for the highest CCA I can find.

Stu suggested Sam's Club for Interstate. They might have this same battery cheaper that an Interstate Batteries retail store [?].

[chickenman_26]

Sounds like another way for manufacturers to cut their costs and still charge a premium for something the customer has to do. Gives them an out of the customer fills the battery wrong or does not seal it right. I think I will stick with the traditional filled and sealed at the factory agm batteries.

That's nothing more than conspiracy theory. Here are the facts. Yuasa does sell factory-filled batteries. They also sell the dry-charged "Fresh Packs". It's all about distribution channels. Yuasa's Fresh Packs aren't filled for a very good reason. Car and truck batteries sell in large numbers compared to bike batteries. So the batteries you see in a parts store rotate stock fast - so fast, they don't have a chance to discharge and sulfate.  But most large warehouse distributors of bike parts like Tucker, Parts Unlimited, etc. buy their entire year's stock all at once, or maybe every six months. Those batteries sit in the warehouse till they're ordered. After that, they could sit on the shelf in a bike shop for another few months. And neither the distributor or dealer is going to have employees running around checking and recharging unsold batteries. If they were filled and sealed, the ones on the shelf for more than a few months would be badly sulfated by the time they eventually got into a customer's bike. The Fresh Packs can remain unfilled for up to 7 years and still be good as the day they were made, provided the foil seal hasn't been removed.

Other brands such as the Super Crank, Champion and those sold by Wal Mart come dry for the same reasons. Those batteries come from overseas. There's shipping lead times and storage to consider. The AGM bike batteries you see being sold on-line only are also mostly foreign-made, with the same problems of shipping lead times and storage. A lot of them that are sold filled and sealed actually arrived here dry. The US distributor then fills and seals them in small lots as ordering dictates. 

I can't speak for other brands, but I can tell you that Yuasa doesn't make a habit of denying warranty, though warranty replacements are their biggest headache. A lot of the batteries they get back for warranty don't have anything wrong with them other than being discharged.

Stu

[bollingball]

I'm with you Stu. The fresh-pac is really the best way to go. It is like buying tires the date code is on them would some of these people buy a tire that has been on the rack for couple of years? even though have been coated they start aging just like a battery that has allready been charged. Some people see the glass half empty no matter what.

Gaither: I'm trying to find that 360 cca but that number cytx14ah-bs is coming up a lot smaller I think 280 will have to look again. Can you double check that number?
Just found this http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_eStore/content/product_info/motor_cycletron2_f.asp

[Gaither]

Bowlingball

Well, I couldn't find CYTX14AH-BS on the chart on your link. But, you are right about "smaller". I feel a bit "put off" (and perhaps a bit stupid). I know the guy said "360 CCA". CCA is not listed on any of the paperwork that came with the battery - nor on the box. I don't recall it being on the battery - and haven't looked (I don't think it was). However, after searching the net this evening, this battery is listed at 210 CCA! (Nuts!)

I'm agravated at that! I'm gonna go by and visit with the guy and have a "discussion" about it. I'll let you know what he says. I'll get him to show me the spec's on the battery. I'll report my findings. If 220 is correct, I can't understand how it spins this ol' 4 cyl so fast. The battery I replaced must have been around 90.

'Sorry I was so conclusively WRONG!!!

[edbikerii]

I had to fill my Energizer AGM battery on my Yamaha, then install sealing plugs.  However, the AGM for my GoldWing, I just bought from www.ETX18L.com, was shipped filled, sealed and charged.

They were both AGM batteries.

It is easy to see how there would be confusion.  There is a WHOLE LOT OF CONFUSION around battery technologies, I've seen.  People often incorrectly call AGM batteries "gel".  That is most certainly not accurate.

[crazypj]

AGM batteries use different electrolyte compared to 'conventional' lead batteries.
 The specific gravity is about 1.3 compared to ~1.25 which doesn't sound much but means the 'acid' is more acidic in AGM
 (both use diluted H2So4, sulphuric acid)
 The CCA may have 2 numbers, max output (dead short) and 10 sec. continuous
 Yuasa publishes numbers for their batteries, I have a list somewhere
 750/4 shouldn't need more than 80 amps initial and about 45~50 amps when turning over
I've amp tested a lot of Suzuki's but Honda don't mention it, if volts are good everything 'HAS' to be good 

[TwoTired]

Stu's post is pretty much right on the money.
It's mostly a matter of stock rotation.

Think about it.  What happens when you apply acid to metal?  Answer; it begins corroding/dissolving.

Storing a battery dry and filling it when put into service usually makes the battery last the longest time possible (with proper treatment).
Store a "wet" battery on the shelf, and the time on the shelf subtracts from the maximum service life of the battery.

The issue with a dry battery is that it needs to be "charge soaked" on initial activation.  The "charge soak" allows all the electrolyte to reach maximum saturation and wet all the plate area, rather than just the portion of the electrolyte directly adjacent to the plates where it is wetted.  I've read that this is less of an issue with AGM batteries because the plate separators are thinner and spread the electrolyte more evenly, by design.

Cheers,

[chickenman_26]

The issue with a dry battery is that it needs to be "charge soaked" on initial activation.  The "charge soak" allows all the electrolyte to reach maximum saturation and wet all the plate area, rather than just the portion of the electrolyte directly adjacent to the plates where it is wetted.  I've read that this is less of an issue with AGM batteries because the plate separators are thinner and spread the electrolyte more evenly, by design.
Cheers,

It's a little different with the AGM fresh pack design, in that it takes some drain/charge cycling in use on the bike before all the acid is absorbed by the mats. In fact, days after activation, if the battery hasn't been actually used in a bike, you can shake it and hear free acid sloshing around.  If you discharge and recharge about 25% of the freshly filled and charged AGM battery's capacity, you'll find it has more amp hour and CCA capacity. It'll continue to increase if you do this 2 or 3 times as all remaining free acid is absorbed. You don't have to do that, though. Just using it in the bike will accomplish the same thing.

Stu