Topic: Pod redesign or enhancement thoughts

[ColinMc]

I bought an airbox off of a member here ages ago i'm gonna use. It's a modified airbox that uses a single bolt on K&N filter. So you get a little bit smoother flow and still less real estate taken up than the factory airbox. I'll post pics in the next day or so.

[Roach]

if anyone wants to know i did some measurments of the inside diameter of the emigo air pods without the rubber on them the inner lip that the velocity stack would attach too is

48 mm's
or
1.88 inch's

now what is the size of the stock stack at the mounting point?

[mrbreeze]

Do pods really make it run like sh!t?

No....if you know what you are doing and buy the right pieces. An aside...I absolutely hate the word "pods". Seeds and peas are carried in pods.

+1.....fer sure!!!!.....when I crank my throttle.....she goes just fine!!!!

What jets are you fellas with pods using?

I was runnin' 138.5's at 89 ft. elevation and moved up into the mountains (2200 ft.). I went down to 130's at that point. Then a friend and me went over the pass (9000 ft.)  and I decided to drop down to 125's but brought the 130's just in case. It did just fine at that elevation and since then ...I have moved back down to the valley (89 ft. again) and still running the 125's with no problem. Got me thinking the 138.5's was overkill.

[TwoTired]

TwoTired, thank you very much(seriously, no sarcasm at all intended or implied) for the description, it really helped to clarify why they are undesirable. Now, that begs the next question, Rita being the awesome chopper she has always wanted to be, what would be the best combination of looks and function I could run that wouldn't clash with the style I am striving for? A stock airbox is out of the question due to the cosmetic consideration as well as practicality, it won't fit where it would normally sit due to the oil tank. I worry about debris intake by using velocity stacks and finding a chrome breadbox airbox is virtually impossible for a reasonable price, last one I saw on Ebay sold for almost $300 and the chrome wasn't in top shape.

Just tryin' to help...
The major problem as I see it, is your desire to avoid rejetting/adjusting the carbs and mimic the stock air box characteristics.  You can get alternate filter systems to work as well or maybe even better than the stock air induction in a particular RPM range.  For overall Street performance the stock air induction is going to be very tough to beat.  I know of no alternative induction system that has had anywhere near the money and engineering time invested in it to work as well as the stock system.  How anyone can believe a $10 filter would work as well or better than the far more expensive stock induction is well beyond my understanding.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  And, you simply cannot dictate functional physics by aesthetics alone.    But, if your tastes dictate that copper is far more eye pleasing than gold, I'm not gonna dissuade you.  But, I will warn you than more frequent polishing is the only way to keep it shiny.
The stock carb settings were created FOR the stock induction.  The decision to deviate from stock must also be a decision to change the stock carb adjustments, or live with an engine that lacks some of the performance of the stock setup.

I get that a lot of people here completely decry the use of pods and consider them a mortal SOHC sin, but stock isn't what I am going for, not can I implement it anyway. With that in mind, feel free to continue thinking less of me for not going the stock airbox route, lolol.

You may be pleased with the Steel Dragon air box
http://www.steeldragonperformance.com/air_boxes_7.html
I've been told that they use UNI filter foam inside.  But, I don't know the membrane retention method.  The pictures don't show the inside of it.
I've also been told that the air entrance slots can be changed.  I was just thinking that vertical slots with radius chamfered edges both sides, would allow better airflow.  I think I'd put as many vertical slots in that entrance plate as could fit, and still retain positive filter foam retention.

...but you are STILL going to have to make carb internal adjustments.   

Cheers,

[mrbreeze]

I'm liking the looks of that Steel Dragon airbox. I would like to see more info, pics with it mounted etc. Its kinda of pricey but cheaper than 4 KN filters. Looks like it would do a way better job of keeping the rain out also. Finally (maybe!!!).....a happy medium between pods and ugly PITA stock box

[Mandic]

So the only reason you are liking the steel dragon airbox is its single filter element so it doesn't cause as much air turbulence as other designs?  As I see it you still end up lacking the velocity stacks that seem to be one of the key issues with the pods vs airbox argument.  Or are stacks intended to be run with that box?  They don't mention it but I guess that could be a distinct possibility. 

I don't mind having to retune for filters personally.  I mean anyone who thinks they can change ANYTHING about their engine and not expect it to have other reprecussions is fooling themselves.

[Dusthawk]

That Steel Dragon setup looks great! If it performs up to expectations I will be ordering it on Tuesday.

Kong, thanks millions for the info and link, very helpful.

I don't mind having to retune for filters personally.  I mean anyone who thinks they can change ANYTHING about their engine and not expect it to have other repercussions is fooling themselves.

It isn't that I want a bolt on easy fix, I have no problem going in and rejetting, going to have to do it regardless, but I have 3 sets of carbs, my originals, the polished set, and another from Ebay. One of those sets should have the best jets to use. I know the polished set can't be used, they are only 105's so I am hoping one of the others does. I was more worried about having to purchase a whole new set of jets from CMSNL or someplace. If none of the jets I have will work, I have no problem buying them. This whole discussion was started in an effort to find a way to increase performance characteristic while using pods. I see now that that isn't possible. I am a great R&R wrench, but when it comes to diagnostics and such, I am woefully lacking, thus, I came here to people I know and respect who know so much more about the questions I have.

I sometimes come off as being insistent or demanding, or even bullheaded, but I don't mean to be, it's just one of my many idiosyncrasies. I hope no one here took umbrage with what I said here, I was merely trying to understand the mechanics of why the pods have an adverse effect on performance and looking for a work-around I could perform here with my own two hands.

Also, keep in mind that this is a very long bike wheel to wheel, and in no way do I expect it to perform anywhere near a stock CB750, but I do want it to run well from idle to 6K RPM. I have new sprockets that will give me a lower RPM for highway speeds, but I also know that the torque at the rear wheel will be reduced, a sacrifice I am willing to make. If I were restoring a stock bike to stock specs, this whole discussion would me pointless, it is the fact that I am building a Chopper is why I need to know and understand why something will work or not work. The more I understand, the better I can build.

[TwoTired]

So the only reason you are liking the steel dragon airbox is its single filter element so it doesn't cause as much air turbulence as other designs?

Assuming you directed the question to me, I must point out that I never said I liked it.  And, I have no other data besides those pictures regarding performance,ergo nothing.  The OP indicated a "bread box" desire.  And, this looks like a possible alternative to that.

I don't believe "Steel Dragon" has any performance data for the device.  They look to be made by skilled machinists, without any direction from an engineer's standpoint.

As I see it you still end up lacking the velocity stacks that seem to be one of the key issues with the pods vs airbox argument.  Or are stacks intended to be run with that box?  They don't mention it but I guess that could be a distinct possibility. 

I don't know what's inside the box either.  But, I do note that SD offers Vstack clones, too.  Again, their VStack machining look very good, but the bell mouth is the wrong shape to ensure laminar flow inside it.

I would question any vstack beneficial effect when a turbulence inducing filter membrane is placed directing in front of the air path.

Cheers,

[Dusthawk]

Just got a message back from Steel Dragon. The Velocity stacks are built into the airbox so that goes a long way to solving one issue. They also said that the faceplate holds the unifoam filter, with or without oil, so having clean air shouldn't be a problem. They ran one of these boxes on a big bore 850 and it ran great. Seems to me a happy middle ground between pods and stock airbox.

[mrbreeze]

Thats what I'M talkin' bout!!!!!......Gonna start saving for that.

[Gonzowerke]

Dusthawk,

How good are your fabbing skills?

Take 2 of these;



They are 7 inches long by 41/2 inches wide, so 2 carbs per filter should work.

Find some metal velocity stacks that work on your carbs, fab a new filter baseplate for the stacks and you are done.


 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KNN-56-1310/

[Retro Rocket]

Have a look at these mate, they are actually designed to improve performance, not just look good.....

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=79491.0;nowap

Mick

[Dusthawk]

Gonzowerke, my Fab skills are non-existent, I have no machinery or tools to do any kind of fabrication work. I am looking more for a bolt on approach, lol, and think I have found it with the Steel Dragon box.

Retro Rocket, while that setup looks good, I think I prefer the Steel Dragons for a couple of reasons. The airbox already has Velocity stacks built in, the filter element mounts to the faceplate, the airbox is hard mounted with set screws to the carbs, I can have them polished to mirror brightness, and last but not least, they only cost $125.00 plus $15 for polishing, which makes them about half the price of the setup in the other thread. They only show Paypal as a method of payment which sucks but I am waiting to hear back from them on whether or not they take other forms of payment, Visa over the phone or Post Office money orders.

[Tintop]

......think I have found it with the Steel Dragon box.

Retro Rocket, while that setup looks good, I think I prefer the Steel Dragons for a couple of reasons. The airbox already has Velocity stacks built in, the filter element mounts to the faceplate, the airbox is hard mounted with set screws to the carbs, I can have them polished to mirror brightness, and last but not least, they only cost $125.00 plus $15 for polishing, which makes them about half the price of the setup in the other thread.......

The filter RR referred to is the one that I put together.  I don't think you read the the whole description.  Not only does it come with stacks, they are the same length as stock.  This to promote the same idle, and part throttle air flow characteristics, as the stock air box setup.  They also incorporate the latest high performance bell design to maximize air flow at all throttle positions.  The back plate is alloy (can be polished), and the molded stack's bells create an air tight seal to this, while the molded stack also creates an air tight seal at the mount (x4 SS clamps supplied).  The filter is attached to the back plate with 4 SS Button Allen bolts & Rivnuts.  There is a foam gasket to seal the filter base to the back plate.  The filter is rated to support 300HP, and the stacks are available in blk & 3 colours.  I do understand that for some the cost &/or the 'style' are a higher priority. 

[MattFreeman]

No....if you know what you are doing and buy the right pieces.

What pieces do you recommend?