Author Topic: Which modern master cylinder? (Read 6435 times)

lassenc · « **on:** April 11, 2006, 02:03:05 AM »

Hi!

I've seen another topic on the benefits of having a modern master cylinder, and looked through eBay.

I came up with a cheap Honda cylinder.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-CBR-600-sport-master-cylinder-lever_W0QQitemZ8047178274QQcategoryZ10460QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Assuming it's 7/8 and fits on the handlebar, what other problems would you guess I could encounter?

I assume the banjofitting is a standardsize?

chrometank · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2006, 02:16:47 AM »

Hey Lassenc, I installed a CBR250RR master cylinder that looks identical to that one on ebay,What a difference ! Mine was better than I thought it would be.
cheers

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2006, 02:20:34 AM »

Do you mean that installing a modern master cylinder on an old CB750 will increase the stopping power? Without replacing calipers or pads? If that's what you mean I want one!!!

Raul

chrometank · « **Reply #3 on:** April 11, 2006, 02:25:24 AM »

Hey raul,Thats exactly what happened with mine! I also have ss braided lines but they were on there with the old master which was just plain spongy.The new mc is only about 8 yrs old so ild say thats the difference.
cheers

lassenc · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2006, 02:27:17 AM »

I'm changing the pads as well, that's why I wanted to change the master cylinder now as well, only need to bleed the system once then

I've found more interesting auctions by the way, there are ALOT cheap, good master cylinders on eBay!

cben750f0 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2006, 02:52:24 AM »

yep the change to a newer master cyl makes heaps of difference, could beleive the change it made to the F1..peace

don76 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:06:56 AM »

I actually used a m/c off a Buell with a braided line and I think it works great even with the original calipers and pads.
Don

lassenc · « **Reply #7 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:21:53 AM »

So I guess I just should take the cheapest one thats coming up

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:24:07 AM »

I have a spare suzuki M/C I bought for my GZ250, so I think I will give it a try when the time comes for the brake fluid change. That M/C have an integrated brake light switch, so I will probably get rid of the CB750 switch assembly and run a full hose from the cylinder to the caliper.

Raul

MRieck · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:45:17 AM »

Whatever you get I'd recommend it have a 5/8" bore.

lassenc · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:56:03 AM »

Any special reason?

Chris Liston · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2006, 05:20:03 AM »

The new to me master that I have has a 5/8" piston in it. Its from a 93 Ninja ZX7R. That and the stainless lines I had already have made that little Honda caliper a stopping machine. Stopping power and lever feel has increased 100%. I don't feel any brake fade like I used to. But I have to relearn how to brake on this bike because it stops now.

Here's an Ebay list of front masters going on now. I'd recommend something with a remote resovior so you can use clubmans or something and it will stay level.

http://motors.search.ebay.com/front-master-cylinder_Brakes-Suspension_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfromZR40QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ35592QQsamcmZ6028

dusterdude · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2006, 05:21:01 AM »

yea,single disc setups need a smaller bore than a dual disc.the larger bore is required on a dual disc so the mc can push more fluid for both calipers.

lassenc · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:14:03 AM »

I know that, but I was just asking why it had to be THAT size

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:33:08 AM »

How do you know the piston size?

Chris Liston · « **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:43:11 AM »

Most modern masters come with either 14mm or 5/8". 5/8" being the larger. It will just put more pressure on the fluid. My master actually says 5/8" on it.

lassenc · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:44:57 AM »

Okay, it's great for my purpose then

If I want a dual disc later on, where can I get the speedo plate thingie I need?

pwright · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:58:26 AM »

Very timely thread. I too plan to go with a modern master soon... is the banjo bolt a universal size amongst brake systems? Also, I have seen some master cylinders that have two hoses running off them, presumable a hose for each side of the dual discs... are most of them single line masters?

Later,
-Pat-

ProTeal55 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2006, 07:02:18 AM »

Quote from: pwright on April 11, 2006, 06:58:26 AM

Very timely thread. I too plan to go with a modern master soon... is the banjo bolt a universal size amongst brake systems? Also, I have seen some master cylinders that have two hoses running off them, presumable a hose for each side of the dual discs... are most of them single line masters?

Most Banjo's are 10x1.25, or around their...
I have not seen a master with dual outlets, but I would guess that would be for one (1) line per caliper. Most ones I see have a single line running from the master to some sort of splitter-Y Block, then a single line to each caliper.

As soon as I get my frontend back from Dragman, I get to do the brakeline thing myself.
Should be a blast

lassenc · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2006, 07:11:34 AM »

I want to do the split line too.

What have you done on the speedoplate issue?

tsflstb · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2006, 07:19:01 AM »

You can use a dual banjo bolt and have 2 lines going directly from your master cylinder to each caliper. This seems to be how the aftermarket braided lines are set up. The 900RR m/c I use came this way. I replaced it with a single bolt since I'm just running one disk.

dusterdude · « **Reply #21 on:** April 11, 2006, 07:22:50 AM »

i gotta quit reading this thread,you guys are gonna make me go buy a late model mc for my gw frontend.

Chris Liston · « **Reply #22 on:** April 11, 2006, 09:00:15 AM »

Quote from: tsflstb on April 11, 2006, 07:19:01 AM

You can use a dual banjo bolt and have 2 lines going directly from your master cylinder to each caliper. This seems to be how the aftermarket braided lines are set up. The 900RR m/c I use came this way. I replaced it with a single bolt since I'm just running one disk.

I did exactly the same thing. I kept that double banjo for future upgrade. But I'll probably just put 2 lines off the stock junction. Who knows

brockj · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2006, 12:38:49 PM »

So I saw a few, but what modern master cylinders have people been using with success? I am in the market for a new one, and if I am going to get one, might as well get a modern one. Perhaps a new thread is in order for this, but what modern master cylinders have people succesfully used?

cben750f0 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2006, 01:26:12 PM »

i am using a vtr1000 m/c... only b/c its the one i had laying around... apparently the cylinder off and SP2(RC51) are a little larger... but it does the job well..peace

Chris Liston · « **Reply #25 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:29:20 PM »

93' Ninja ZX7R. Using it because it was the cheapest on Ebay at the time. 5/8" piston too.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #26 on:** April 11, 2006, 05:10:01 PM »

We run twin discs on the CR with stainless hoses right up to the master cylinder, that's from a NC30 VFR400R.

We only paid £40 from David Silvers.

WE run stock calipers and pads.

Sam.

bwaller · « **Reply #27 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:44:54 PM »

I'm using a master from an 85 Interceptor on one bike, a ZX12 on another, and a GSXR on a third. All for dual disc set-ups. I stick to the sport bike stuff, but just about any model will do. These type master cylinders use a small mechanical brake light switch so you can eliminate the original junction tee with the hydraulic switch and run the single or dual lines direct from the cylinder to the caliper (s) By eliminating fittings you eliminate places for air to accumulate and bleeding is simplified. Sound like a broken record?

neilbron · « **Reply #28 on:** April 11, 2006, 09:12:37 PM »

Hi guys - really interesting. And sounds like a very worthwhile mod.

Any thoughts on WHY the improvement?
Better engineering/tolerances? Seal materials?
After all - it is just a lever moving a piston

Would a brand new or completely refurbished original m/c work as well?

Cheers,

Neil.

ProTeal55 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 12, 2006, 07:07:16 AM »

Bigger Piston = Moving More Fluid = Better Stopping Power
Stainless Steel Line = No line expansion = Better Stopping Power

[/b]

lassenc · « **Reply #30 on:** April 12, 2006, 07:11:15 AM »

Too large a diameter is not good either!

neilbron · « **Reply #31 on:** April 12, 2006, 02:49:54 PM »

Quote from: ProTeal55 on April 12, 2006, 07:07:16 AM

Bigger Piston = Moving More Fluid = Better Stopping Power
Stainless Steel Line = No line expansion = Better Stopping Power
[/b]

DOH! Sorry guys - gotta get a break from working these 14 hour days.

Neil.

KCs76Cafe · « **Reply #32 on:** April 12, 2006, 07:33:48 PM »

1998 Suzuki Katana master cyl......it already has the angle which allows you to check and add fluid with Clubmans.

chippyfive50 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 13, 2006, 09:52:31 AM »

heres the one I bought, it looks good on the bar, but i dont have it hooked up yet.....
http://www.speedwerks.com/catalog/c0m0bm0b0s1pn0p4182np0

cd811 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 13, 2006, 04:38:50 PM »

I'm running a 06 trx450 m/c on my bike...it was cheap from honda...$50...ss russell brake lines were expensive

......with (2) 6 piston calipers, that thing will stop

techy5025 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 13, 2006, 04:47:55 PM »

Maybe I'm wrong....but I thought that the force on the pad was equal to the
area ratio of the caliper piston bore to the master cylinder bore times the mechanical
advantage of the brake lever...which depends on where you hold it.

If you make the bore bigger you actually cut down on the applied pressure to the
pad, but you reduce the travel of the lever by the ratio of the increased area (not diameter).

If you want to get more stopping power you should go with a smaller bore and accept more
movement of the brake lever....assuming the same force at the same position on the brake
lever of course.

Even with dual disks, I'll bet the standard bore has enough travel. After I changed to stainless
lines and properly bled them, I still have at least an inch of travel with as much force as I can
place on the lever.

Jim

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Author Topic: Which modern master cylinder? (Read 6435 times)

don76

brockj

neilbron

neilbron

cd811