Author Topic: Father and Daughter 77 CB550F Rehab project (Read 6036 times)

ThomWill · « **on:** April 11, 2011, 06:55:26 PM »

Well, we got started tonight. I have just over a year before Rachel (my 17 year old daughter) goes off to college and if we are finally going to do the bike project we have been talking about for years. Rachel pulled the old battery and the tank tonight. I only had to help get the petrified fuel line off the petcock. Our Clymer's is supposed to be here on Wednesday, so we are not getting in any big hurry yet.

Next up: Tank off to radiator shop for cleaning and redcoat. Cleaning, cleaning,cleaning, so we can see what we are dealing with here. Then a carb tear down and rebuild, plugs and oil to see if we can get her running and let her tell us what else she needs in terms of engine rebuild.

Then down to the frame for powder coat and engine paint and whatever else we need to do to get the engine back.

Rachel has picked the stock 77 color scheme with the Candy Sword Blue and gold striping so I need to get some quotes on paint.

Glad to be started.

Pics to follow...

Stev-o · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2011, 07:33:35 PM »

First off, welcome!

If your bike has years of greasy dirt on it, pick up a couple cans of Gunk Foamy Engine Cleaner at you local auto parts store, about $5/can. Works great.
How many miles - have you checked compression? Engine may not need a full rebuild, they last a long time if they been cared for at least a little.

Good Luck.

ThomWill · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2011, 08:21:10 PM »

Stev-o, Thanks! We will invest in some of that engine cleaner since it is very dirty. Have not done the compression test yet. Waiting on my manual to arrive and need to run to HF and get a gauge. The PO was disabled and did not do anything with the bike for three but it looks as though his PO had it running and tagged as recently as 2006. I would think that for its age it is in pretty good shape given that it spent the last 3 years outside (under a cover).

I have not even attempted to move the engine yet because I did not want to risk making any potential problem worse until I knew what I was dealing with. My background is mostly electrics and electronics with only a small amount of mechanical. I have a reasonable theoretical understanding of how the whole bike works, but want to take my time since Rachel and I will be learning our way through the hands on as we go.

Starting with the tank clean and seal so I know I have a good fuel source as we work through the rest of it.

I will be asking LOTS of questions as we go (after searching the site first, of course).

Greggo · « **Reply #3 on:** April 11, 2011, 09:42:43 PM »

Welcome! Show us some pictures (we like pictures

)

CycleRanger · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2011, 09:51:57 PM »

this should help: http://www.mediafire.com/?uznwn3ihx0i

500/550 workshop manual.

more here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0

midnightrider · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2011, 10:10:33 PM »

Glad to hear that you're venturing into vintage bikes - and bringing along a partner with you!
Seems like you have a good plan to start with. If it was running that recently you may not need too much for it to run again...

Redkoat is great - my tank was in pretty bad shape and it's doing great now, although the POR-15 kit is highly recommended if you wanted to try it yourself. You may be able to re-use some of the carb bits, so I wouldn't buy full rebuild kits until I looked at them. You can get gasket/o-ring-only kits as well. If you're doing complete rebuilds you may want to check out some reviews of the different kits. There are nice allen-head bolt kits that make carb work a bit less of a headache (the phillips bolts peppered all over these bikes can be frustrating sometimes).

You may want to remove the tappet covers (be careful when replacing them though - they don't need to be very tight) to see if the top end still has an oil coating on it (it should)...if there's oil in the case and some residual oil on the top end it should be good to turn before the initial oil change - you could squirt a little marvel mystery oil (or similar) into the cylinders if that makes you feel better (I did, but mine had been sitting for over over a decade).

If compression is decent - and depending on the maintenance it's received by the PO's - you may only need a good carb cleaning and an ignition tune-up and/or new ignition bits for it to run. A gallon of Chem-Dip and a carb jet cleaning tool are good investments.

Definitely check out the disck brake soon - it will at least need a fluid change, if not a master cylinder and/or caliper rebuild.

As for eventual tear down, tapered steering bearings are highly recommended (mine are great).

Keep in mind that I'm pretty new myself (I recently finished my first project on a CB350F, very similar to your plans - the link is in my signature) and there are much more experienced members (correct me if I'm wrong!!) who will surely offer their advice, but I figured I'd offer my thoughts to help you get started.

This will be a great project for you and your daughter; good luck!

Bakeoff · « **Reply #6 on:** April 11, 2011, 10:22:45 PM »

Sounds like you're being the kind of dad I hope to be. Very cool. Can't wait to see some pics!

ThomWill · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2011, 03:34:59 AM »

Bakeoff, what a nice thing to say. Thanks!

ThomWill · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2011, 02:50:26 PM »

While Rachel was at school today, I dropped the fuel tank off at the local radiator shop, the petcock screen came out in one, unadulterated, piece which they told me was a blessing.

This afternoon, pulled the plugs and poured an ounce of Seafoam down each plug hole. Got a compression tester today at HF and as soon as I got home discovered that I should have searched here first (of course) so now I will be going back to get one with a 12MM adapter. Compression test tomorrow evening. The first tools / parts are supposed to arrive tomorrow as well.

On another note, found out that my lovely wife is now looking at roll around tool chest for us so we can get our stuff organized for the work to come (I am currently using an old dresser).

I have posted the before pictures in other places here (newbie forum), but this is our starting point (first) and where we are headed

(second and if it is yours that Google found for me... congrats!)

Tintop · « **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2011, 03:44:57 PM »

Looks like a great project, and you have a nice complete bike to start with. Like your daughter's colour choice, should be a great looking bike.

ThomWill · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2011, 06:21:07 PM »

A little more progress. Tonight attempted to move the engine for the first time and we figured out that the engine is not frozen "Good news" and then Rachel pulled the plugs and we were going to use our shiny new compression tester to do a compression test. So while applying some power across the battery from my charger we discovered that the starter switch is stuck closed (or that circuit is shorted somewhere else downstream). As soon as the switch goes to the on position the starter solenoid started clicking like crazy... the starter switch seemed really mushy to me as well. So gotta tackle some electrical issues before moving back to the engine stuff.

midnightrider · « **Reply #11 on:** April 15, 2011, 06:58:15 AM »

Quote from: ThomWill on April 14, 2011, 06:21:07 PM

A little more progress. Tonight attempted to move the engine for the first time and we figured out that the engine is not frozen "Good news" and then Rachel pulled the plugs and we were going to use our shiny new compression tester to do a compression test. So while applying some power across the battery from my charger we discovered that the starter switch is stuck closed (or that circuit is shorted somewhere else downstream). As soon as the switch goes to the on position the starter solenoid started clicking like crazy... the starter switch seemed really mushy to me as well. So gotta tackle some electrical issues before moving back to the engine stuff.

There is a spring in the starter switch that needs replacing sometimes - mine did. The whole switch is very simple.

Bakeoff · « **Reply #12 on:** April 15, 2011, 07:10:31 AM »

One thing to keep in mind about the charger: depending on the amperage output, it might not have been enough to start the bike. More of "trickle charge."

flopshot · « **Reply #13 on:** April 15, 2011, 07:13:00 AM »

i found the non foaming Gunk to work better. i also made extensive use of assorted 'toothbrushes' with plastic, stainless and brass bristles as well as a couple bags of bronze wool and Simple Green. did a pretty good job of removing three years of storage grunge. when you get the starter issues sorted out pull the plugs, squirt a little oil in the cylinders and run the starter a few times to prime the engine before you actually start it. doing this while the carbs are off will allow you to shoot some oil in the intake ports as well. i second Bakeoff's sentiment.

ThomWill · « **Reply #14 on:** April 15, 2011, 10:46:18 AM »

Quote from: midnightrider on April 15, 2011, 06:58:15 AM

There is a spring in the starter switch that needs replacing sometimes - mine did. The whole switch is very simple.

Unfortunately mine is a 77 and appears to have the sealed switch unit, which is crumbing I might add). Gonna wire up a temporary SPDT push button for the rest of the basic stuff and then, I guess, order the assembly from Western Hills Honda since there does not seem to be a source for just the switch (although I may cruise the component aisle at Fry's before dropping over 100 bucks for a switch.

As for starting it, we are still a ways off. Tank is still at the radiator shop and have not even pulled the carbs to look at them yet (Rachel has finals and AP tests coming up so I have been doing a lot of reading while waiting for her to free up)

Thanks on the heads up about the charger. I had really just hoped that it would just let me do some basic light / horn sanity checks etc. but as soon as I turned the key it tried to close the solenoid. Then had to dig into the wiring diagrams to figure out where to put my multimeter to see what was closed or powered when it should not have been.

Trav-i · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2011, 12:30:09 PM »

Glad to see another SOHC 4 being brought back to glory. Also just want to let you know that next month I'll probably start up the NEGA mountian rides again (my brother-in-law and my self started them last year), and we open them to any bike. We tend to get quite a few forum members from NEGA and a few from as far a way as Tenn. Love to see y'all up here for a ride or 2. Just keep a look out in the event section, I should be posting for the May ride within the few days. Plus we have a friend (forum member Bluto with a awesome stock 75 550), who comes out all the time.

Travis

neverendingproject · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2011, 12:53:06 PM »

Way to go taking the time to do a cool project with your daughter. I always loved learning things like that from my dad.

It sounds like you've already seen this http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=80532.0 but I wonder if you could get an earlier right hand switch with the headlight switch and rebuild that? Does anyone know? They're pretty simple and it's very gratifying when they actually work after you're done

ThomWill · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2011, 07:49:49 PM »

Did I mention that we got into this as a learning project?

An old electronics guy turned computer programmer and a teenage girl. Well today we learned three important things:

1. The difference between a primary kick start and a non-primary kick start ( the last time I had a kick start I never needed to worry about those things)

2. That our CB550 has a non-primary kick start so the clutch has to be engaged to function.

3. That because we did not understand that we were not really trying to move the engine and so were unaware that ours is seized.

Back to Seafoam in the cylinders and patience. Still not sure if we get it loose if we should just plan on doing a top-end rebuild or just pull the head and check out the cylinders (thoughts?)

Have been going through the Clymer manual and the Honda manual downloaded here before digging into the carbs.

Stev-o · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2011, 08:27:05 PM »

Before jumping to the conclusion that it is seized, consider that it may just be "stuck". Generally, a seized engine has had some type of mech failure. A "stuck" motor is one that has set for a long time nag the rings have rusted to the cylinder.
I bought a K7 last year that was stuck. Following advice from this forum, I was able to "unstuck" it in the following way:

1. Prepare a cocktail of 50/50 of ATF/acetone and pour a couple Oz in ea cyl
2. Let it sit for 3-4 days
3. Cover the cyls w/rags, put bike in 4th and rock it back and forth 'til it frees up.
4. If it fails, repeat.

Good luck.

ThomWill · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2011, 03:53:34 AM »

Thanks Stev-o.... now that is 4 things we learned today. The difference between stuck and seized. Gonna give the seafoam a couple of days to work and if that fails will go to the ATF and Acetone.

flopshot · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:55:51 AM »

might help if you can get a little heat in the cylinders. ice on the pistons, MAPP torch to warm the cylinders. messy but effective.

ThomWill · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2011, 05:16:29 PM »

Rachel mixed the ATF and Acetone and put it down the plug holes... will try rocking it on Thursday. In the mean time gonna pull the carbs and start taking them apart

ivanhoew · « **Reply #22 on:** May 01, 2011, 07:50:26 AM »

subscribed :-)

Ecosse · « **Reply #23 on:** May 01, 2011, 05:31:06 PM »

subscribed... and welcome!

VoodooChild · « **Reply #24 on:** May 01, 2011, 05:54:47 PM »

It's awesome to see you're doing a project with your daughter. You are now in the running for "father of the year".

Mechanical projects always make for a good learning experience. I just picked up my 550 about 2 weeks ago, and I've already learned my fair share. ha Good luck to you both!

ThomWill · « **Reply #25 on:** May 03, 2011, 05:04:27 AM »

So after two rounds of ATF and Acetone, we are still stuck (at least using the rocking method, which given the condition of the tires has left a nice black mark on my garage floor from where the rear slides

)... at this point, Rachel and I have talked it over and we are just going to start a top-end tear down to see what is going on in there. Even if we got if freed up at this point, we would still be planning a top end rebuild as badly stuck as it seems to be. Want to get eyes on those cylinders to see how bad it is and to verify that is even where we are sticking.

First though, she has to finish finals and her AP tests... the problem with doing a project with a busy teenager is that she is well, busy.

ivanhoew · « **Reply #26 on:** May 03, 2011, 08:49:52 AM »

thom , when you try to prise the barrels off , resist wacking the fins with a rubber hammer ,they break really easily .;-)

ThomWill · « **Reply #27 on:** May 07, 2011, 08:30:36 PM »

Another night not working on the bike, because of... PROM??? She picked prom over tearing into that engine... She could at least have smeared a little grease on the dress.

ThomWill · « **Reply #28 on:** June 18, 2011, 07:24:41 PM »

Finally!!! after prom, finals, ap exams etc. we have gotten started on the tear down, it has been hard to wait but glad I did. Today we took off the seat, luggage rack, grab bar, highway pegs, and the exhaust. Rachel did 90% of the wrenching and seemed VERY pleased with herself.

TrueSpin · « **Reply #29 on:** June 18, 2011, 08:12:22 PM »

This is awesome.

Always love seeing parent-child projects like this.

Subscribed.

Really? · « **Reply #30 on:** June 18, 2011, 09:18:08 PM »

I am jealous, father/daughter project. The good thing is I have 8 more years to decide if I want the twins to have a bike and 10 years for the other one.

The eldest has helped me on Momma's bike.

Tintop · « **Reply #31 on:** June 19, 2011, 05:40:12 AM »

Thanks for the update ThomWill, great to see this project moving forward.

News:

Author Topic: Father and Daughter 77 CB550F Rehab project (Read 6036 times)