Topic: Cafe Racers in Oz, it had to happen, I suppose.................

[Retro Rocket]

The question is really... Why am I not filling a container up to sell to you suckers? 

Good luck with that Iggy, i buy all my stuff from the US at the moment, your crappy dollar is creating  bargains everywhere at the moment.....

[Terry in Australia]

The question is really... Why am I not filling a container up to sell to you suckers? 

Because I have a sister living in LA, and if I ever get serious about starting a business, I'll fly over, stay a couple of weeks, hang out with a couple of forum members, fill up a container and fly home again, and the profit from those bikes and parts will pay for my trip and all the beer I drank. Ha ha, Cheers, Terry.

[ekpent]

Just out of curiosity do you guys in OZ have to pay any VAT tax or large import duties like they do in England and such.   PS-Terry just picked up another Kwacker triple beastie today but forgot camera,throw you a pic soon.

[Terry in Australia]

Service is almost non existent. At least when compared to the US. There's three guys in my state, Victoria, that will even touch old Honda's. Then you're looking at a 6 month wait. Pud's Parts, the guy that worked on the eBay bike, has had my mates CB200 engine since December. All that needed was assembly, all the engineering was already done. He's only just said he won't get to it for another couple months. We took it to another guy.

I took my 1975 CB400F to the Honda dealer in my local town to get it Dyno'ed. When I mentioned it needed some care when taking the spark plugs out, they wouldn't touch it. That was the Honda dealer.

The 'custom bike builder' mentioned in the eBay listing is Modern Motorclycle Company in Collingwood. They charge $95 a hour but don't do anything more than electrics and 'custom' work. No engineering/welding.

Parts is the same. I just bought a used starter motor from Sydney for $85 plus $15 shipping. If I had got that from the US I would pay $25-$35 (look on ebay right now). Shipping would have been at least $30, but I'd have to wait 14-21 days. Any aftermarket part is likely to have these costs built into it.

Nothing is cheap here. Parts are hard to find and services harder. The good news is the Australian dollar is now worth MORE than the US dollar for the first time since the eighties.

Rick.

Terry you need to go to Sydney, it's huge there. Deus seem to have done it all on their own.

Having been rebuilding a CB400F down here in Australia for the past two years, I can see why this guy is hoping to get $15,000 it. That's about what it would have cost him to get to that point. He's probably just looking to get what he put in.

If the engine was done by Andrew Pud from Pud's Parts then he's not cheap, I can imagine that that would have cost $3000 at least. He probably got the bike as a runner for anywhere between $3000 to $8000, as you know, that's what a decent CB750 goes for down here. So conservatively he's already getting up around $10k.

Does that mean the market will pay $15k for essentially a tricked up black CB750? Well as I said, go buy a cafe, bobber, flattracker etc already built from Deus and you'll pay close to that. Or a new Hinckley Triumph for $12k - $15k for a similar look. If you want the look, then you'll pay the price. Which is what that whole cafe thing is about these days right, the look?

I look at that attitude like this. If you've got $15k and you want something 'cool', you're not going to get a Porsche. You don't know a thing about bikes so you're not going to buy a beater and restore it. You'll go to Deus (or this guy) and pay $15k for something that runs and looks the part. Fashion, marketing, trends... Nothing new.

Hell I would have spent close to $15k over two years on my little CB400F and it's still not running!

If this type of bike building/selling keeps guys like Pud's Parts in business, then I'm all for it. It might also mean I could get what I put into my bike one day, right? Right?

Rick.

Tell your mate to buy a workshop manual and do it himself, Pud has a pretty awful reputation for being a slack prick, he built a CB750 engine for a mate of mine, (Fred Russel from Tynong) on Fred's first ride it emptied the entire contents of the oil tank thru the exhaust, so he took it back to Pud and he took over a year to fix it. Your mate could reassemble his engine, blow it up, and rebuild it again in the time it'll take Pud to do it, and it'll still be cheaper, and probably a better job. I do all my own work apart from upholstery, I'm self taught, and I'm happy with the results. Cheers, Terry.

[Terry in Australia]

Just out of curiosity do you guys in OZ have to pay any VAT tax or large import duties like they do in England and such.

G'Day Eric, we have to pay an import duty of 10% for anything over $1000.00, but for pre-1988 bikes we don't have to. Makes importing old bikes (like sweet Suzuki GT750K's..........) viable. Cheers, Terry.  

[ekpent]

The guys over there in some parts of Europe,England for sure I have read from some Rick Brett reports I get totally hammered,20% VAT i think and whatever else they can get away with,hope nothing like that takes hold here.  PS-Terry just picked up another Kwacker triple beastie today but forgot camera-send a pic soon.  Eric

[RickB]

Retro,

You're dead right, I wouldn't pay $15k for that bike or anything like it either. Asking that price and showing rust and grime in the close ups is just lazy. Still, I was doing the math on how easily someone could spend $15k on a bike in Australia.
 
Terry, I've been barking up that tree with my mate since last year. The reason for the rebuild is because the last rebuild seized a cylinder (blocked oil gallery in the head) after 100km. So he says he doesn't want to chance it again and is getting a professional. A guy named Sam Spears operating out of Midlife Cycles in Richmond. They seem like good blokes so we'll see.

I've never dealt with Pud's personally but after this episode with my mates engine I have joined the Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club and not the 750 Four Club.

Anyway, that's getting off topic. Let's see if this bike sells!

Rick.

[Udecidetoday]

I like the bike...the price is insane.

[dave500]

heres another,9500
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150586452885&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[Terry in Australia]

Well I don't think that one's worth the money either Dave, (to put it into some kind of perspective, I only got $7500.00 for my CB750K0,a much more desirable bike, when I sold it last October) but to be fair that orange bike looks pretty good, and his attention to detail appears better than whoever built that fugly F1. Cheers, Terry.

[cobrajunkie]

That CB550 didn't sell for that price and the F1 won't sell for that price either but I agree, that CB550 was well put together.   Both bikes were previously listed on eBay and didn't sell. The same F1 was previously listed for $9,999.00AU. It might be a more valuable discussion to see what bikes are selling for rather than what the seller is asking to see what the market will bear.  Its actually good to see people push the edges to set the tone of the market. 

Still curious as to what people think the cafe racer craze has done to the value of their bike or the OE collector value in general.  I see it as a good thing all around.  Increasing awareness of the original bikes increases the potential audience for buyers, increasing the demand for aftermarket parts creates competitiveness and keeps costs down, and saving more bikes from the scrap heap can't be bad.  Purists will never be happy seeing their baby raped but I don't think it will have a negative impact on value.

[cobrajunkie]

Purists will never be happy seeing their baby raped

however many hate seeing some of their history bastarized to the 3rd degree. Keeping the machine looking basically stock should hold value best.

rt

Yes but don't forget, the cafe scene has been around since the 50s and has just as rich of a history, if not more so than the CB750.  I don't see it as bastardizing at all although there seem to be many that build "cafe racers" that don't really get it.    I'm not building a cafe bike to try make it look better, I'm trying to capture the spirit of  what the rockers and ton-up boy subculture was all about back in the day.  Lawless rebels who literally stole bikes from the garbage collections on the sidewalk in the UK, got them running, stripped them down and added some low bars and went and scared the milk out of cows.  For me, it doesn't get any more complicated than that.

[Terry in Australia]

I hear similar sentiments to that from lots of modern "Cafe" builders, but basically, it's all bullschitt. True Cafe Racer types wouldn't urinate on a Japanese bike, a real Cafe Racer is an old Triumph, Norton or BSA twin, not a Honda 4, or anything else that wasn't even around during the Cafe Racer's heyday.

It should be remembered that the whole Cafe "fashion", mods, rockers, whatever, was only a very short lived thing, and was dead long before the Honda SOHC4's arrived. I was in England for a few months in 1974, and by then, Choppers were all the rage, and all the old "Cafe Racers" had been "re-customised" by another generation, with tasteful mods like extended forks, ape hangers and sissy bars.

Cafe Racers were dead by then, because you could buy super fast, super reliable big Jap bikes by then, and their riders were a little more refined than their greasy haired predecessors. Cheers, Terry.    

[seven]

I like it and think it is easily worth that.

I doubt whether you could build a customised bike to the exact same specs for 15 grand, if you factor in the man hours as well as the parts.

Trouble is, a new Kawasaki W800 or Thruxton can be had for 13 grand ride away.

At least the Honda will be something that is completely unique.

[ev0lve]

Yep, until the marketing gurus can see a way to make a reasonable looking machine that consists of a tank, couple of wheels, frame and engine at a reasonable price you all will just have to put up with the cafes.

The w800 is a great example - except for the "not available in the US" part 

[cobrajunkie]

I hear similar sentiments to that from lots of modern "Cafe" builders, but basically, it's all bullschitt. True Cafe Racer types wouldn't urinate on a Japanese bike, a real Cafe Racer is an old Triumph, Norton or BSA twin, not a Honda 4, or anything else that wasn't even around during the Cafe Racer's heyday.   

I said "capture the spirit", meaning get something cheap, rebuild, ride.  You can't get a triumph/Norton/BSA as cheap as you can a SOHC4 in same shape. I'm not looking to be accepted by the cafe racer crowd.  Just enjoy what I have.

It should be remembered that the whole Cafe "fashion", mods, rockers, whatever, was only a very short lived thing, and was dead long before the Honda SOHC4's arrived. I was in England for a few months in 1974, and by then, Choppers were all the rage, and all the old "Cafe Racers" had been "re-customised" by another generation, with tasteful mods like extended forks, ape hangers and sissy bars.

Cafe Racers were dead by then, because you could buy super fast, super reliable big Jap bikes by then, and their riders were a little more refined than their greasy haired predecessors. Cheers, Terry.    

I didn't know it had to be a fashion for a certain length of time before it was admired.  Really... what does that have to do with anything.   

[Radam]

The question is really... Why am I not filling a container up to sell to you suckers? 

Because I have a sister living in LA, and if I ever get serious about starting a business, I'll fly over, stay a couple of weeks, hang out with a couple of forum members, fill up a container and fly home again, and the profit from those bikes and parts will pay for my trip and all the beer I drank. Ha ha, Cheers, Terry.

Terry, the wife and I are looking more and more into Oz over anywhere else. Next month a lot of post doc. jobs should open, so she'll be applying for some. We were talking about getting a trailer to hook up to my bike to ride to Cali and ship from there. I'll let everyone know when I find out for sure what's going on to see if anyone wants to pitch in and ship a bunch of stuff together. My bike could use the company. 

[Retro Rocket]

I like it and think it is easily worth that.

I doubt whether you could build a customised bike to the exact same specs for 15 grand, if you factor in the man hours as well as the parts.

Trouble is, a new Kawasaki W800 or Thruxton can be had for 13 grand ride away.

At least the Honda will be something that is completely unique.

You should have read this because it is exactly right...

Just because someone pours a fortune into a bike does not mean it can easily be recovered in a sale

I have customised or "improved" bikes and cars for over 30 years, customising anything usually costs money and doesn't necessarily add value. I have an F1 currently sitting in my shed, it has a braced frame and different suspension and worked engine, all i need to do to make it like that black thing is cut down an old drag seat i have and paint it and it will look better than the bike in question, all up it owes me around $1000, what makes you think it is worth 16,000 dollars....?  I have had some beautiful cars as well, my SLR cost me around 20 grand to build in the early 90's, at the time it was only worth half that, i knew that but didn't care because i wanted it to be all original and look great, i would have been laughed at if i advertised it for what i paid into it......

[TwoTired]

Anybody else think that "Cafe racer" is the new "sandcast" sales enticement?  (or at least trying to be?)

Catchy label, eh what?

[ev0lve]

Anybody else think that "Cafe racer" is the new "sandcast" sales enticement?  (or at least trying to be?)

Catchy label, eh what?

Yes, but I still want nothing higher than the top of the triple tree. That's 36-24-36 to me 

If that's "cafe" well... I don't much care.

[seven]

I like it and think it is easily worth that.

I doubt whether you could build a customised bike to the exact same specs for 15 grand, if you factor in the man hours as well as the parts.

Trouble is, a new Kawasaki W800 or Thruxton can be had for 13 grand ride away.

At least the Honda will be something that is completely unique.

You should have read this because it is exactly right...

Just because someone pours a fortune into a bike does not mean it can easily be recovered in a sale

I have customised or "improved" bikes and cars for over 30 years, customising anything usually costs money and doesn't necessarily add value. I have an F1 currently sitting in my shed, it has a braced frame and different suspension and worked engine, all i need to do to make it like that black thing is cut down an old drag seat i have and paint it and it will look better than the bike in question, all up it owes me around $1000, what makes you think it is worth 16,000 dollars....?  I have had some beautiful cars as well, my SLR cost me around 20 grand to build in the early 90's, at the time it was only worth half that, i knew that but didn't care because i wanted it to be all original and look great, i would have been laughed at if i advertised it for what i paid into it......

You mean like this one......

http://australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle/149725-lx-slr-5000-torana-3?query=slr

[Retro Rocket]

You mean like this one......

http://australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle/149725-lx-slr-5000-torana-3?query=slr

Yep except mine was white with the black bonnet.....

[nhodges]

Yes, TwoTired

  "Cafe racer" is the new "sandcast" sales enticement?  (or at least trying to be?)

At least here in S.C. it is